Flat battery

petem said:
Cringing as I write this.....

Guys have checked my house batteries and there's no water in them*. They've added 9lt of water between the two and they seem to be holding charge. I'll know for sure when I have my swanky new battery charger that's on it's way to Spain.
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Look on the bright side, thats an extra 9 kilo when you weigh them in
 
petem said:
Cringing as I write this.....

Guys have checked my house batteries and there's no water in them*. They've added 9lt of water between the two and they seem to be holding charge. I'll know for sure when I have my swanky new battery charger that's on it's way to Spain.


* Note to self, don't leave them for years without checking them.
Click to expand...

That not usual Pete .
Heat of the ER and general hot summer Med evaporates it off and if the charger is not so smart for want of a better word .
I had same issues with wet acid on my old S/Sker similiar engines and ER dims in the Med .
Switch over to sealed for life batts and check you have a up to date all singing and dancing charger .

Any initial cost increase from wet acid to gel is got back later because they last longer and you don’t have to worry about water evaporations. We have no wet acid batts on the Itama .

Plus you know they ( engines ) will be “ on the button “ when you arrive .

A lot my thinking and buying decisions are based on minimising down time and maximising longevity.As it happens they end up costing less ......in the long run .
 
I think those batteries are now "toast".
IMHO they now need replacing.
I have seen this kind of thing before and the batteries have become dangerous.
They will get hot - sorry - thats my view.

Why not change then for some AGMs - I'v had 3 seasons now from mine.
Leochs are at the cheaper end and seem to work well.
Something like this (but probably not this actual one)
https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/120ah-leoch-agm-leisure-battery/
I'm using a similar one - a bit bigger though.

EDIT - these type of batteries are virtually maintenance free - just keep them and the terminals clean.

Then be sure to set the new battery charger to AGMs - on my charger is was a DIP switch.

Sorry, - I think those old batteries should now be thrown out.
 
MapisM said:
Yup, that didn't help for sure, but how many years are you talking about?
I can't remember to have ever used more than one 5L bottle each season, for all of my 8 domestic+2 starting batteries, in the last 20+ years.
I'm not sure about whether, once you start neglecting them, the water consumption can accelerate exponentially. If so, that can be the reason for your huge 9L in 2 batteries.
But other than that, I would also consider if they are possibly placed in a spot that gets way too hot when the engines are running.
Click to expand...

I suspect the batteries are 5-7 years old.

I wouldn't say that my E/R gets particularly hot and I'd have a job finding somewhere else to put them.
 
petem said:
I'll know for sure when I have my swanky new battery charger that's on it's way to Spain.
Click to expand...

See if your new charger has a "Recon Mode" this supplies a higher voltage say around 15+v for about an hour. This should help desulfation of the lead plates
 
petem said:
I suspect the batteries are 5-7 years old.
I wouldn't say that my E/R gets particularly hot and I'd have a job finding somewhere else to put them.
Click to expand...
No 1st hand experience on what can happen to FLA whose liquid level has never been checked for that long, but that surely puts the 9L in perspective... :rolleyes:
Probably their placement doesn't have so much to see with that!
Anyhow, after such timeframe, a relevant part of which spent with lead plates almost completely dry, any evaluation about whether to replace them or not is trivial.
All you need to do is decide which way to go with the replacement.

Fwiw, I disagree with the school of thought that on a boat it is worth using more sophisticated batteries (AGM, gel, sealed, whatever - not to mention lythium!) rather than the good old FLAs.
Each to their own of course, but in my experience all it takes to keep half decent FLA batteries in good working order for 6 to 8 years is some minutes twice a year to check and top-up their level.
In fact, the duration of your batteries is outstanding, all considered! What brand are they?
Anyway, there's no way that batteries costing twice or more for any given power will last more than twice.
 
petem said:
P, this is them...

https://www.tayna.co.uk/leisure-batteries/exide/er660/

I wonder how many others weren't aware that water levels need to be checked?!

Pete
Click to expand...
I have a large 12v unsealed battery and i need to top up with about a litre of de-ionised water every 3 months. They are in the Lazerette, insulated from the engines, so in ambient temperatures. My service batteries are sealed so no maintenance.
 
Pete, I can't speak for the specific model of charger you are now referring to.
Otoh, I've seen some chargers (and inverter/charger combos) which already have the connections built-in, but you must buy the temp sensor separately.
In some others (like an excellent Victron MultiPlus combo which I bought from BartW himself, for my old lady) the probe is included.
In your boots, I'd ask first to whoever you purchased the thing from.
 
Hi Pete,
there is no probe delivered with the charger,
none of these "smaller" units have a temp sensor probe input,
the "over temp protection" is for the charger itself, not for the battery's.

only bigger models (with substantially higher charge current) have a temp probe input
 
Sorry Pete. All the chargers I have ever bought come with the sensors. Clearly this one doesn’t which is odd. They are just a small stick on bit of plastic ( with sensor inside ) and a long ish lead with a cost of a few pounds.
 
petem said:
Turns out it's an optional extra which is a bit annoying. Thinking about it, I'll actually need 3, one for each battery so that another £100 or so.

Smart Battery Sense - Victron Energy
Click to expand...

Just learned something new today; the "smart sensor" is something else then the "wired sensor" which is delivered with Victron Multiplus or Quattro, the invertor / chargers that we are used to work with,
the smart sensor is a wireless divice that connects with a Victron network, it seems that this could work with your smart charger, but no experience with that.
the device has some intelligence so its a bit more expensive than that wired passive temp sensor (that is just a varistor in a metal socket)
tbh I don't really see the need for that, but I would rather prefer to have a battery monitor
 
BartW said:
Just learned something new today; the "smart sensor" is something else then the "wired sensor" which is delivered with Victron Multiplus or Quattro, the invertor / chargers that we are used to work with,
the smart sensor is a wireless divice that connects with a Victron network, it seems that this could work with your smart charger, but no experience with that.
the device has some intelligence so its a bit more expensive than that wired passive temp sensor (that is just a varistor in a metal socket)
tbh I don't really see the need for that, but I would rather prefer to have a battery monitor
Click to expand...

When you think about, my model of charger has two variants; one that can charge three batteries (banks) with the current split between them and the one I have (called the "1+1") which gives a 27amp charge to the main bank and a 3amp charge to a stand alone battery.

In both cases a single probe would only provide limited coverage so these natty little wireless sensors would seem to a better solution (also for more accurate voltage readings). Looking at the data table (https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Manual-Phoenix-Smart-Charger-EN-NL-FR-DE-ES-SV-IT.pdf - page 14), the Phoenix Smart Charger would appear to be able to integrate with these Bluetooth sensors to provide a more accurate voltage reading and also to provide over temperature protection for the batteries.

This is the manual for the charger: Smart Battery Sense Manual [Victron Energy]

As for 'needing' the wireless sensors, remember that I leave my boat on charge 24/7/365. If the sensor would force the charge to shut down in the event that a battery starter to fry then it might be a good (£60) investment.

Incidentally, where there are two batteries in a bank you only need one sensor.
 
petem said:
As for 'needing' the wireless sensors, remember that I leave my boat on charge 24/7/365. If the sensor would force the charge to shut down in the event that a battery starter to fry then it might be a good (£60) investment.
Click to expand...

when nobody is onboard, the only thing the charger does is "topping up" the battery's at very lo amp rate,
there is lots of scare mongering here on the forum about exploding battery's,
but I've never seen such a think happening with a pro quality device sa a Victron charger
leaving the charger on 24/7/365, that is what I do, and that is the best you can do,
all imho :)
 
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