Flares

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Well that set the cat among the pigeons!

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Go on! Now ask a col regs question! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Then I am sorry as I did not read (or take in your final para). I was replying to anyone on the thread who was suggesting that flares are old hat and no longer needed cos we have radio and epirb (epirb in the solent, your avin a laugh, another brilliant system cheapened by weekend captains).

As to giving the wrong position, do you have a DSC handheld?

Does every boat on bank holiday Monday have a fully functioning GPS to DSC connection?

I have heard skippers being asked a position and not able to, one even laughed it off during his flat calm broken down mayday call, saying to the coasty I should have listened in class more eh? ha ha ha. He could not read off his GPS screen nor give a location, which incidentally was a popular anchorage.

A red rocket takes all that onus away, though it would seem that many modern boaters would probably blow a hole through the floor if they tried to use one.
 
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though it would seem that many modern boaters would probably blow a hole through the floor if they tried to use one.

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That would solve the problem. Mayday, mayday, glub glub glub.........
 
Yes Max

You shine it across the eyesight of the viewer so as to attract the attention much as a daytime lighthouse. It has squillions of candle power and carries a warning (that it should not be shone in anyone's eyes close range)

RNLI ok

It has all the benefits of pyros but none of the hazards, costs and disposal probs.

A no-brainer really.
 
A powerful torch is a handy thing to have, except that it is pretty useless by day, absolutely useless if the batteries are flat, and is not a universally recognised distress signal.

Imagine this. you have a badly injured crewmember and send a distress call, there are a couple of other yachts in the area, but neither respond. The helicopter is heading your way but does not know which yacht is yours, after all you have been sailing towards land since you sent the call. A red flare will instantly tell the helicopter crew which boat to head for in a way no other signal could do.

I personally keep a set of flares in a plastic bottle, and a pair of leather gauntlet gloves with them, along with a handheld VHF, pocket GPS and spare batteries in the emergency grab bag on board.
 
I put a strobe light (and PLB) in my pocket at night. OK if I happen to tip over the side and am crewed up!
For drawing attention to the boat -
At night, deck light, strobe and flare
Day time, smoke is hard to beat.
In a life raft, I would rely on PLB and strobe.
 
Are you suggesting you might confuse it with one of those illegal (but it's alright to break the rules as I wish to be seen) mast head lights?
 
That's OK dogwatch.

Now you know I don't have a hand held DSC don't you! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I agree fully about the bank holiday crowd in Lake Solent though! Good grief even once heard someone totally convinced he was 2 miles south of Ryde pier! But do you really think these people are safe with flares? I would have thought in Lake Solent you don't even need a radio, just shout across to the next boat!

I would like to know how many RNLI shouts have been launched as a result of a flare, I'm not talking about false alarms though.

I am about to take my flares off the boat and turn them in at Lee on Solent. I will buy one or two Orange smoke for daytime and a couple of red hand helds for night time pin pointing, but ONLY to be used if we cannot guide in the helio any other way.

The argument of 'will the technology work' has been argued on many occasions. But even if the radio stops working, and lets look at a channel crossing incident, then setting off the EPIRB will summon help, or will it? Well why not, why should it be anymore unreliable than hoping that someone sees your red para, and when you've fired all of them? Add to that the nagging doubt about the safety of flares, the white hand held that crippled the YM instructor a few years ago was a serviceable in date flare. I could not either ask a member of crew or myself to fire a flare hoping it is seen and hoping it wont explode, adding a serious injury to an already critical situation. As for ownership of flares one must also consider how difficult it is to get rid of the old ones.

No, today there is no real need to run the risk of carrying or having to use flares. I do believe the likes of Pains Wessex have already seen this, hence their investment in EPIRB.
 
So we are just talking daylight, when you have a helicopter or rescue boat in line of sight, why can't the torch be shined in their direction ? Or, that dye which airforce people use when they parachute into the sea ? (Top gun anyone ?)

On top of this flares cannot be regularly tested, and as one forumite has already found out, can cause injuries in their own right.

I'm not looking to critisize anyone's personal choice, it's a forum and the OP made me try to justify the reason to retain them. I am looking for a killer reason for retaining flares, and I have not seen it yet.
 
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the white hand held that crippled the YM instructor a few years ago was a serviceable in date flare

[/ QUOTE ] I agree; and this is a massive consideration, this is always on my mind when we discuss flares. OTOH, it was the first time an incident like this has happened, anyone brought up around boats will have set flares off as a kid, or was that just me (I am obviously talking about old hand held at a beach party etc.)

In history there have been incidents of rifles exploding and killing infantry men, but facing an angry enemy I would rather take my chances with a rifle than a bright torch, ok that is facetious but in the event of an emergency, even just summoning a helo for my crew, I will take that chance.

I have some hand-helds in the shed that I removed from the boat after picking up new replacements, I fully intended to set them off in the back garden, well at least, get er' outdoors to set them off as she has never seen a flare go! I wanted to give her an idea of how hard you need to strike and how loud the red flares can be. I am too frightened to do this now, which is bad, I would hate to think of her trying to fire a flare for the first time in her life when she is scared and shaking.

From threads on here, we now have some heavy duty gardening gloves in the flare container and grab bag, other than including body armour, I am not sure what else we can do. The chances of serious injury must still be minuscule though.

I really hope we do not see the end of flares, they are still in general a foolproof method to attract attention.

p.s. Does anyone know how the instructor is getting on, is he getting his life back together yet??
 
i know of alot of peeps in the solent that rely just on mobile phone and that is all, think about all those idiots on their jet ski's aswell what would they use.
 
Don't brand all the jetskiers the same way. A group of very responsible Solent jet skiers, fed up of the small number of mavericks, came on here a few years ago to explain their position, the training they do, and reporting the idiots who get them a bad name.
 
IMHO there is simply no function of flares that can’t be duplicated in a better and safer way.

Mobile Phone/Epirb/Handheld VHF/VHF do the job of parachute flares.

Electric lights do a better job of identifying a casualty at night.

Surely YBWers are not so lacking in resourcefulness or imagination that they can’t think of decent alternatives to smoke flares for identifying themselves in daylight? There’s hundreds of alternatives! However, smoke’s pretty good and AFAIK smoke flares are far safer than Para/Handheld. (Mind you, I’d hate to think of one getting let off accidentally in a boat.)


Flares are ambiguous, often missed and the position is painfully inaccurate – little more than a guess.
Electric lights can be tested before you leave.
Electric lights work far longer than handheld flares – also can be switched on an off by the casualty when there’s nothing about to conserve battery power even longer.
With a big stack of flares there’s the risk of fire on the boat being fuelled or worse rather powerful rockets igniting.
If an electric light goes badly wrong you just pick up another; if a flare goes wrong you lose your hands and eyes.
Last time I went to a flares display they were so dangerous we needed three fire extinguishers & a bucket of sand to hand. We also tended to hold at arms length and wear gloves and safety glasses – does that really suggest they are safe?
Plenty of cases of flares being missed.
It’s telling that even the strong advocates of flares over the alternatives wear gloves. How many people who would choose to signal with electric light need to wear protection?

I have to confess to a change of heart on this. Until recently I was of the view that flares were useless but harmless to leave on the boat. I've recently come to the conclusion that they simply have no place on any boat of mine.


A question: How many people were saved by flares in the UK last year and how many were injured by them? Anyone know?



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I have heard skippers being asked a position and not able to, one even laughed it off during his flat calm broken down mayday call, saying to the coasty I should have listened in class more eh?

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And these are the very people you are advocating relying on to see your flare and accurately report your position?

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Please explain. If I see your strobe do I come in and rescue? or keep away

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So if I see a single red light at night to I assume it’s a sailing boat or a casualty with a red handheld flare?
 
God help us all.

The only person speaking and sense in this is Dogwatch. The rest of you who will put your life in one mode (electronic) of safety; all I can say is good luck to you and Darwin was right.


Each piece of safety equipment is carried for a reason. Yes they overalp in purpose but that is the point, so you have a back up in case one fails. (and you should all know from your own experience that stuff fails at sea, especialy anything electronic)

Flares are a very important element of the safety kit that should be carried on all boats. They provide visual location, day and night.

Those that rely on there phone, good luck to you, you are going to need it!

(And there was me thinking that going sailing I was out with like minded people!)
 
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