Flares - do we need them?

[ QUOTE ]
As far as disposal is concerned, every public body seems to have abrogated their responsibility in this respect. They will get what they deserve.

If there is no straightforward means, people who wish to dispose of them will use unstraightforward, (is there such a word), means.

There are plenty of easily accessible dustbins outside blocks of flats, plenty at marinas, and so on.

They could just be dumped anywhere that someone felt they were not observed, or at sea.

Once dumped unobserved, there is no way of knowing who dumped them.

Piled up in an owners garage, they are an accident waiting to happen - at the very least, children, (current or future houseowners), might think they are fireworks.

The fact that the authorities are willing to fine people for putting recyclable stuff, (i.e. paper and plastic bottles etc.), in the wrong bins, yet will not take any responsibility for the disposal of explosives, is yet another sad indictment of the system we are governed by.

I havent felt a need to dispose of any to date, so can honestly say that I am not guilty of any of the above /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Richard

[/ QUOTE ]
While I have some sympathy with this post, I must add that Coastguard will still take them - BUT you must make an appointment to hand them in.
 
"While I have some sympathy with this post, I must add that Coastguard will still take them - BUT you must make an appointment to hand them in. "

OK. I'm sure someone has said they have tried this with their local Coastguard, and the response was negative......

Anyone?
 
[ QUOTE ]
"While I have some sympathy with this post, I must add that Coastguard will still take them - BUT you must make an appointment to hand them in. "

OK. I'm sure someone has said they have tried this with their local Coastguard, and the response was negative......
Anyone?

[/ QUOTE ]

Did it with Lee on Solent, turned up on time, handed them over, AND found a really cheap petrol station nearby to fill up car on way back too! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Tidewaiter,
When was it that Solent CG accepted your flares, was it recently? Friends of ours are also trying to dispose of their old flares and have been told by Solent CG that they are unable to accept anymore flares as their storage facility is full. They were told that the army are no longer collecting the time expired pyrotechnics with the result that the system is clogging up with old stock. Some chandlers are taking them but are charging a few pounds for each flare.
 
Perhaps a letter to your local MP's in the main yachting areas, Solent, Falmouth, Poole etc. Might stimulate a government reply.
Not all of them are counting their money-yet!
 
[ QUOTE ]
a fellow forumite had life threatening accident whilst demonstrating flares. they can be dangerous. the faulty in date flare nearly killed him.

only ever have in date ones


[/ QUOTE ]

Why? The chap you refer to was injured by an in-date one - have you any evidence that out-of-date ones are significantly more likely to injure?

And when you are anxiously scanning the horizon, water from the hole your mast just made in the hull lapping round your feet, last in-date flare burned out and floating away, are you going to think

"Coo, I'm glad I handed in the flares which expired last year. One of them might have burned me. Glub. Glub. Glub."
 
[ QUOTE ]
Snooks, how would you feel if you asked your crew to fire one and it misfired causing serious injury?

[/ QUOTE ]Have you stopped beating your wife?






<span class="small">before going all native on me for asking, google the question</span>
 
Flares have served mariners well for quite a while now, but we are seeing the beginning of the end for flares, in 50 years time I cannot see health and safety allowing them when there are safer alternatives.

The costs of the alternatives is a bit of a hinderance at the moment, but in time this should get better.

The "it might not work" argument applies to all communication technologies, that's why you do not rely on a single flare, and hence why you should build in redundancy into your communication strategy.

As with previous posts on this subject, I totally accept people's right to choose flares.
 
As an alternative to the usual hand-held flares - why not a pack of miniflares? somewhat less intimidating and you have several flares in one pack. And it might be in your pocket when, sailing single-handed, you fall overboard.
Plus, maybe, an orange smoke or two in the boat.

I have given up on parachute flares, they scared me witless, they cost too much, and an EPIRB will do a much better job. Especially if it's foggy.
 
[ QUOTE ]
hi i buy two new flares each year and throw out two that are over five years old,keeps cost down and numbers up,i have used flares twice in my life and would not put to see with out them,at night thay wanted me to fire a flare so thay could pipoint my position,the water was up to my waist which was ok but i was standing in the cockpit at the time !!

[/ QUOTE ]

You do similar to myself - instead of a big bill to replace in one go - replace one by one or in part ... spreading the cost out.
I have in and out of date flares - like Csail - I want to be found if in trouble...... couldn't give a monkeys toss about a date on the flare ... it's there and I have never had an old one fail when demo'ing on ships deep sea.
 
I have found the local tip will always take them. They have a dedicated cage for hazardous materials. I always ask permission to dispose of them there and so far they have always been hapy to take them.
 
[ QUOTE ]

I have given up on parachute flares, they scared me witless, they cost too much, and an EPIRB will do a much better job. Especially if it's foggy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree completely. My current flare pack expires next year and will not be replaced. Would I better off buying a PLB rather than an EPIRB? They are cheaper and portable while serving the same function. More use in a singlehanded MOB situation too.
 
There is no such thing as a 'safe' pyrotechnic, the one being demonstrated for the purpose of a video was IN DATE!!!! If that device had been used aboard a boat without the immediate medical help that was needed, he would have died.

Some argue that you cannot tell if an EPIRB signal has been received. I'd rather trust my luck to a high tech listening station than hopping someone will have seen a flare and in this day and age understood what it is!

I have just removed my out of date flares from the boat, they have been replaced by two orange smoke for day time spotting and two reds HH for night time spotting, these will supplement my EPIRB and DSC radio.

One day someone will come up with a replacement for pyrotechnics, just as the pyrotechnic replaced the barrel of burning tar on the foredeck!
 
Thank you for all of your replies. I suspect that this is a subject that will rattle around for some years to come.
I have solved the problem of the out of date flares that have been languishing in the garage, the local police station have happily taken them off my hands.
I will keep in date flares onboard and in the liferaft but also keep the EPIRB batteries up to date and the handheld VHF's charged etc.
Fingers crossed, belt and braces and lets just hope for fair winds and sunshine - enjoy the sailing!
 
One final reason....

We were coming out of Plymouth a couple of weeks ago... and their was a distress call from a small boat off of Rame head... the area was heaving with boats.... and several boats responded including a German Frigate..... but it took nearly 40 minutes to identify which yacht was making the call... evenetually the frigate did a 360 degree turn and asked the casualty to tell him when he (The frigate) was pointing in his direction...

If he had set off a smoke or hand held flare he probably would have had help alongside within 5 minutes.....

I think in the normal crowded bank holiday weekend sailing that we all must do... flares are probably the fastest way to get help.
 
[ QUOTE ]

I agree completely. My current flare pack expires next year and will not be replaced. Would I better off buying a PLB rather than an EPIRB? They are cheaper and portable while serving the same function. More use in a singlehanded MOB situation too.

[/ QUOTE ]
there's been a thread on this. Basic answer is probably "yes" if you sail singlehanded. Some points to watch though:
The term "PLB" seems to be ambiguous. You need the one that sends a signal to satellites (406 MHz), as well as a homing signal.
PLB is registered to the owner, the EPIRB to the boat.
EPIRBs float in the right attitude for sending the signal and will send the signal automatically if in salt water. PLBs will not float in the right attitude (or, in some cases, at all /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif) and will need to be switched on.
EPIRBs have a strobe light and, generally, a longer battery life than a PLB.
A case can be made for carrying some form of flare for identification at close range (see other posts on this thread).
 
I regard flares as pretty much the last option, but would generally want to have them if venturing beyond daysailing. I would only use them if no other means of raising an alarm was reasonable, as I regard them as expensive and inherently dangerous. Its just another x pounds a year you have to budget for.
 
[ QUOTE ]
There is no such thing as a 'safe' pyrotechnic, the one being demonstrated for the purpose of a video was IN DATE!!!! If that device had been used aboard a boat without the immediate medical help that was needed, he would have died.

Some argue that you cannot tell if an EPIRB signal has been received. I'd rather trust my luck to a high tech listening station than hopping someone will have seen a flare and in this day and age understood what it is!

I have just removed my out of date flares from the boat, they have been replaced by two orange smoke for day time spotting and two reds HH for night time spotting, these will supplement my EPIRB and DSC radio.

One day someone will come up with a replacement for pyrotechnics, just as the pyrotechnic replaced the barrel of burning tar on the foredeck!

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course the real question is what is safe, is putting to sea in a small boat safe, is crossing the road safe, is walking along the pavement safe. Basically not only is living a fatal disease, it is also dangerous and all sorts of things can go wrong however careful you are.

I agree that as electronics become more reliable and new devices come along we may be able to get rid of flares, but we are not there yet. Equally lights are dangerous, espedcially ones that can be seen from long distances. Equally in a world where changes are agreed at an international level things take time and do not always go the way you expected, I know having beeninvolved in looking at the rules for ships steering gear after the Amoco Cadiz disaster.

No for the time being I will be keeping my flares, but equally be rembering they are dangerous I will hope to keep them safe.

PS if you think flares are dangerous read up on batteries, those lead acid things are lethal.
 
belt and braces...

Yup, EPIRBs, VHF/MF/DSC/SATCOM/SART.... all superb ways of summoning help.
Yup, flares, in date and out can malfunction... But, they shouldn't be discounted, they have and will continue to save lives...

A couple of examples:
A Yacht halfway from Iceland to Scotland dismasted in big seas, one of the crew badly injured set off EPIRB. Coastguard responded and tasked Nimrod to the area - Search plan covered quite a large chunk of the North Atlantic - When the Nimrod arrived on scene it was a flare which guided them quickly to the casualty. The two crew were picked up by US long range SAR helo's (which had to in flight re-fuel on the way)

A ship carrying timber sank in the South China sea EPIRB activated- UK registered and crewed ship responded to Mayday b'cast and started search. Rescued 13 of the 19 crew. Two of whom were plucked from the water....Quote from Master: "orange smoke and small rocket sighted on the starboard bow"...."Whilst the Chief officer and his companion were afloat with only lifejackets, amazingly one smoke float, one rocket, three life buoys drifted within reach of them. without them I have little doubt they would not have been rescued."

Skipper of Yacht in Western Solent on a busy sunday afternoon has heart attack. Solent CG called, Rescue helo dispatched... "you are tasked to a white hulled yacht with white sails in the western Solent" !!! Yacht instructed to fire orange smoke..... target identified from 3 miles out.... job done..

I have numerous stories of where flares/smokes have helped save lives... I have also numerous stories of CG's investigating flare reports which turned out to be, meteors/car tail lights/aircraft/chinese lanterns...

technology hasn't outgrown the humble flare yet.....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top