Flares - demonstrating thereof and relevant legislation

FishyInverness said:
AWOL - I am guessing you were in the demo that I linked the news article for earlier - Just out of interest, with all the police "advice" about the setting of off flares in a non-emergency situation being illegal, were there any arrests? ;)
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Strathclyde's finest (now defunct) were out in their rib. Very friendly and chatty while noting boat names in their little black book. For most of those present the demise of Clyde Coastguard surely came under the heading of "grave and imminent danger".

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I organised a try-a-flare day in Tollesbury, Essex, about 3 years ago: it took 4 months to wade through all the legislation I could find and discuss with the relevant authorities. The end result was:
It must not be on public land, ie the public must not be able to just wander in.
Permission must be obtained from the owners of the land, eg a marina or someone's back garden.
The ambulance service should be informed, but will be completely uninterested.
The fire brigade should be informed, but will also be uninterested.
The police should be informed: if it is near water (eg in a marina car park), inform the local marine police; if inland, inform the local constabulary.
Whether it is near water or not, inform the local Coastguard station: these are the only people who will be interested. Give them lat & long, date, time & likely duration, eg by email; get a phone number & contact name and agree to phone them just before it starts and just after it ends. They will specify no parachute flares; only hand-held: there seems no way round this.
You may be told it is illegal to let off flares on land, and on water unless it is an emergency: I didn't find any specific legislation to this effect; it just seems to be "common knowledge" without a basis in fact. The moot point is whether the setting off of the flares is "reckless": in an organised demo, it isn't.
Do a risk assessment relating to the place you're going to do the demo: include 2 or 3 people with mobile phones (check the signal) who can dial 999 if needed; 2 or 3 people for crowd management (keep people away from the flares being let off); organise a specific place where the flares will be let off, with about 10m clear all round; ensure large buckets of water for putting flares into, plus buckets in case of fire; if at all possible, ensure a hose (check the pressure); allow for any possible wind direction & consider nearby houses etc for smoke (don't let off red smoke flares: the red dust goes a very long way & is tenacious: trust me on this!); prepare simple disclaimer forms that people must sign before they let off a flare & organise someone to ensure they are signed (clipboard needed); arrange fire extinguishers.
Arrange a web site or email address that people can check before they attend in case of last-minute cancellation, eg due to high winds.
I asked people to bring their old flares and also got some from Pains-Wessex etc: if they are out-of-date, only the owner can use them and you must check they look in good condition first.
Watch everyone carefully: out of about 40 people, 2 were about to set them off upside down.
Failure rate was about 1 in 3: that ties in with experience over many years.
Allow people to look closely at the 3 different methods of ignition: the decision of what type of flare to buy is the most important result of such a demo. If possible, get one of the new laser flares, which I will be going over to once my current ones are out of date: solves all the problems.
Or, of course, just get the RYA to do the demo! Easy; no hassle!
Give people info on how to dispose of old flares (local Coastguard probably but not definitely; phone first). Remember France: you can be fined on the spot if you carry out-of-date flares, even if you also have in-date ones!
Beware knock-on effects: many years ago I did a flares demo (no regulations; you just did it) and after a few were set off an old biplane appeared and spent 20min doing acrobatics: we stopped flaring and watched, spellbound. He went away and we resumed. A week later we learnt that the plane had been booked to do acrobatics off Southend and the signal for where to start was - a red flare! Oops
Alan Wilson
 
alanwilson said:
Whether it is near water or not, inform the local Coastguard station: these are the only people who will be interested. Give them lat & long, date, time & likely duration, eg by email; get a phone number & contact name and agree to phone them just before it starts and just after it ends. They will specify no parachute flares; only hand-held: there seems no way round this.
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On what legal authority did they make that stipulation?
 
No legal authority: they said that they would get a few 999 calls from hand flares, since it was in a secluded location, but loads of 999 calls from parachute flares, and even given the lat & long where they were let off, it would be difficult to distinguish between one from my demo and one from a boat sinking a few miles away. So just on practical terms rather than legislation.
 
alanwilson said:
If possible, get one of the new laser flares, which I will be going over to once my current ones are out of date: solves all the problems.
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Except of course, that it's not a recognised distress signal, and ninety nine out of one hundred people who see a light flashing out to sea will either think "Ooh, that's pretty", or "Bloody kids, messing about with laser pointers again".

The hundredth will think "That bloke's nav light is on the blink"
 
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Twister_Ken said:
Except of course, that it's not a recognised distress signal, and ninety nine out of one hundred people who see a light flashing out to sea will think "Ooh, that's pretty", or "Bloody kids, messing about with laser pointers again". The hundredth will think "That blokes nav light is on the blink"
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+1 they are a total non starter.
 
Twister_Ken said:
Except of course, that it's not a recognised distress signal, and ninety nine out of one hundred people who see a light flashing out to sea will either think "Ooh, that's pretty", or "Bloody kids, messing about with laser pointers again".

The hundredth will think "That bloke's nav light is on the blink"
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Actually, they may well have a place as a homing beacon once the alarm has been raised and acknowledged (sort of night time version of orange smoke) but as a primary means of raising the alarm I reckon they're choccy fireguards.
 
alanwilson said:
.... and after a few were set off an old biplane appeared and spent 20min doing acrobatics: we stopped flaring and watched, spellbound. He went away and we resumed. A week later we learnt that the plane had been booked to do acrobatics off Southend and the signal for where to start was - a red flare! Oops
Alan Wilson
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They're legal for air display organisers then! ;)
 
You might want to keep any white or orange smoke flares you have, just in case. They are excellent for getting rid of moles!
 
pteron said:
Ideclaring the demonstration illegal.

So I being I, looked for the legislation.

So unless there are further laws applicable, the regulations clearly only apply on a boat.

Anyone know of other applicable laws? Real links to real laws please, not hearsay.
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Can't help but thanks for asking the question - I share your frustration with people who make these kind of claims.
 
alanwilson said:
No legal authority: they said that they would get a few 999 calls from hand flares, since it was in a secluded location, but loads of 999 calls from parachute flares, and even given the lat & long where they were let off, it would be difficult to distinguish between one from my demo and one from a boat sinking a few miles away. So just on practical terms rather than legislation.
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Thanks. That seems quite reasonable. It's also quite reassuring, should I ever be contemplating banging off a rocket in earnest ...
 
awol said:
The demonstration was on the water so zero danger of damage to property - and, yes, the flares were still burning when they reached the water. Rocket can reach 300m altitude, so now somebody knows!

I am glad I did it and feel I benefited from the experience - makes my own risk analysis more fact based.
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With a burn time of typically a minute, allowing for more breeze at altitude, range could easily be half a mile.
 
Twister_Ken said:
Anybody better at maths than me want to work out what the visibility footprint of a para flare at 300m is compared to a laser 'flare' at 2m?
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Depends on the height of the observer.
At 300m, it will depend on atmospheric visibility mostly.
But after the first minute, the para flare is history of course.
 
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