Flares - demonstrating thereof and relevant legislation

Doing anything which is reasonably likely to injure a member of the public is probably illegal under some general purpose law.
If case law has it that letting off flares is caught by this, then it is probably possible to get jailed for it.
Anyone letting off flares in the course of their business might come under HASAWA.
Anyone who knew that somebody had once been killed by a flare yet still decided to let one off on land might be facing charges of criminal recklessness.
Anybody who was responsible for minors at the time might be in all kinds of poo.

It's not necessary for the law to specify every conceivable type of stupid and dangerous act.
 
So let me work this out:

  • You were attending an official training event;
  • Run by the UK "governing body" for yachting; and
  • Who are authorised by the MCA to train and certify sailors to sail ships for leisure and for commercial gain
Why should that be illegal? A phone call to the local CG station advising them of the date time and place would let everybody know what was going on.

It would be interesting to hear if the red faced gentleman took it to court and got a conviction. Then it might become illegal.

I did see a red handheld being let off, they are impressive, on 14th July in France this year not a 1nm from the CG station, Oddly the lifeboat, on the other side of the harbour, was not launched nor a SAR helicopter dispatched. I wonder why.
 
Camelia said:
It would be interesting to hear if the red faced gentleman took it to court and got a conviction.
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People have some very funny ideas about what's illegal, particularly regarding flares, ensigns and RCD categories. They are probably the same people who like to claim that almost anything they don't approve of will "invalidate your insurance" ...
 
Seatrout said:
No, for the non-emergency use of them, which triggers a response.
For demo purposes, a simple call to the CG in advance is all that is needed.
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No harm in giving the Coastguard a bell, but really it's hard to see how a hand-flare set off in an industrial estate is going to trigger anything except possibly a complaint about the smoke.

Pete
 
prv said:
No harm in giving the Coastguard a bell, but really it's hard to see how a hand-flare set off in an industrial estate is going to trigger anything except possibly a complaint about the smoke.

Pete
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Big difference between handheld, smoke and rocket flares isn't there?
I'd be happy to let off handhelds with a call to the coastguard, but rockets would need serious consideration about where they were going to go.
Really the only safe place is a mile out to sea with no other boats in a big radius.
Don't the forces have training flares, which burn differently?
 
prv said:
Yep, and the post which started this thread was about hand-flares.

Pete
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The OP, didn't specify "hand held".

"I attended an ISAF/RYA offshore safety course last weekend and much learning was enjoyed.

Part of the course involves a demonstration of flares and the chance to have a go. During the proceedings, an obviously unhappy gentleman (his face was almost the colour and luminosity of the red flares currently burning) remonstrated with our teacher declaring the demonstration illegal. "
 
I watched a class being taught about flares and they got a try out themselves, I will not say where but it was an RYA course. I was very disappointed at the number of flares that failed, either to go off or caught fire. I asked the instructor if this was normal and was told that a very high percentage of failures were down to user error. Now if users are making mistakes (dangerous ones as liferafts are made of rubber) in the quiet environs of a marina what chance at sea in a stressful situation. Certainly made me think about carrying flares in the future.
 
One of the upsides from the closure of Clyde MRCC was the opportunity, while ostensibly demonstrating against the closure, to let off flares, both hand-held and parachute. Out of the 8 of each - all over 4 years out of date - there was one hand-held failure to ignite, the rest all performed as advertised as did the pack of 10 year old mini-flares.
From that experience I would have no qualms about letting off rockets (no violent kick back that I noticed) and mini-rockets (do it above head height to minimise ear-ringing from the bang) but the hand-helds need to be held out over water ('cos of dripping red-hot dross) and take what seems a long time to burn, time that may be better used elsewhere in an emergency. I keep leather welding gloves (Lidl) in the flare container.
 
awol said:
One of the upsides from the closure of Clyde MRCC was the opportunity, while ostensibly demonstrating against the closure, to let off flares, both hand-held and parachute. Out of the 8 of each - all over 4 years out of date - there was one hand-held failure to ignite, the rest all performed as advertised as did the pack of 10 year old mini-flares.
From that experience I would have no qualms about letting off rockets (no violent kick back that I noticed) and mini-rockets (do it above head height to minimise ear-ringing from the bang) but the hand-helds need to be held out over water ('cos of dripping red-hot dross) and take what seems a long time to burn, time that may be better used elsewhere in an emergency. I keep leather welding gloves (Lidl) in the flare container.
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What risk assessment would you carry out regarding where the rockets would go?
Or do you only care that it is 'away from you'?
How many people know the range of a rocket flare?

TBH I cannot think of very many suitable places to let off rocket flares, but I guess it's easier in Scotland than Hampshire.

What kind of probability is acceptable for hitting a) somebody or b) somebody's property?
1 in a million?
Now suppose that all TEP's are let off in this way, there must be 100,000 a year in the UK?
So once a one in a million chance translates to 'not unusual'.

To return to the OP, I would bet that if a rocket flare hit somebody, even if it was an absolute freak of statistical luck, they would find something to charge you with.

I should point out that my views on this issue are coloured by witnessing someone get a firework rocket down their welly boot when I was quite young.
The bloke in question had survived WW2 as a tail gunner, if that is relevant.
 
lw395 said:
What risk assessment would you carry out regarding where the rockets would go?
Or do you only care that it is 'away from you'?
How many people know the range of a rocket flare?
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The demonstration was on the water so zero danger of damage to property - and, yes, the flares were still burning when they reached the water. Rocket can reach 300m altitude, so now somebody knows!

I am glad I did it and feel I benefited from the experience - makes my own risk analysis more fact based.
 
AWOL - I am guessing you were in the demo that I linked the news article for earlier - Just out of interest, with all the police "advice" about the setting of off flares in a non-emergency situation being illegal, were there any arrests? ;)
 
dhobyb said:
I watched a class being taught about flares and they got a try out themselves, I will not say where but it was an RYA course. I was very disappointed at the number of flares that failed, either to go off or caught fire. I asked the instructor if this was normal and was told that a very high percentage of failures were down to user error. Now if users are making mistakes (dangerous ones as liferafts are made of rubber) in the quiet environs of a marina what chance at sea in a stressful situation. Certainly made me think about carrying flares in the future.
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Interesting to hear that the instructor was failing to teaching people how to use flares and admitting it. Most flares used in training, in my experience, are well out of date and this could also be a factor.

Having only ever used flares when a member of a mountain rescue team I would comment that they are very, very effective.
 
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