Flare disposal in the back Garden

[Plum]

Thanks to all for inspiring me to set off the flare pack that's been languishing under a tree in my garden, inside six layers of plastic bag for six months. I phoned the RNLI, the fire brigade, the police, and the council, but nobody's will take them. Except the council who advised I put them in the dust bin

If you call the Coastguard they will tell you where their nearest collection point is although you should make an appointment as they may not always be able to take them if you turn up unannounced, particularly if their storage container is full.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[Mark-1]

CG have been utterly useless in my quest to get rid of flares. They take flares on the last Friday of the month via appointment. Since early October they've twice taken my details and promised they'd contact me to tell me if they could take mine, then failed to do so. The final straw was Friday when they called to ask me where I was with my flares. So they'd obviously eventually put me on the list for Friday without telling me!

Hence my sudden urge to get rid of mine myself.

 

[[70521]]

Be in France on Bastille Day just next door to a Semaphore and lifeboat station, and do as the French do and use up your old flares.

 

[chrishscorp]

Except the council who advised I put them in the dust bin

Are they insane ? somebody at a south coast marina, cant remember which one, did just that chucked them in the big wheelie bin and the dustbin lorry duly collected it, compacted the rubbish and drove off shortly followed by large clouds of red and orange smoke billowing out the back, by the time they found somewhere safe to tip the whole lot out the vehicle was a write off.

The Coast guard will take them as has been said last friday of the month, but does need to be booked in.

 

[Mariner69]

Not many people realise that rocket flares are designed to stay alight until they hit the sea. That's one of ten reasons you should never set them off inland. Luckily for your 'friend' it was only a shed.

Pedant Mode On:

The SOLAS rules require the rocket to reach a minimum height of 300 metres when fired vertically. At the top of the trajectory to eject the parachute flare which has to burn red, at 30,000 cd with a burning period of not less than 40 seconds. The rate of descent must not exceed 5 metres per second. From eject to land would be about 60 seconds on that basis leaving a period of about 20 seconds to cool from a height of about 100 metres, These parameters were designed to avoid a burning flare entering oil on the sea surface following for instance a collision between oil tankers.

Pedant Mode OFF:
Having said that you can always get a duff one.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Pedant Mode On:

The SOLAS rules require the rocket to reach a minimum height of 300 metres when fired vertically. At the top of the trajectory to eject the parachute flare which has to burn red, at 30,000 cd with a burning period of not less than 40 seconds. The rate of descent must not exceed 5 metres per second. From eject to land would be about 60 seconds on that basis leaving a period of about 20 seconds to cool from a height of about 100 metres, These parameters were designed to avoid a burning flare entering oil on the sea surface following for instance a collision between oil tankers.

Would there not have to be a maximum burn time too? Those rules would allow a burning flare to reach the sea.

 

[[70521]]

They're designed to be let off in a bare hand, so that should be ok, but I'd prefer to wear gloves. You don't need to carry a welding kit, just a pair of leather gloves.

After a close call on a mountain rescue training exercise with a flare some time ago I err on the side of caution and have a pair of elbow length gauntlets!

 

[prv]

Thanks to all for inspiring me to set off the flare pack that's been languishing under a tree in my garden, inside six layers of plastic bag for six months. I phoned the RNLI, the fire brigade, the police, and the council, but nobody's will take them. Except the council who advised I put them in the dust bin

That works pretty well for hand flares, and possibly smokes if you have the space for it to disperse without annoying people, but it's still not a good solution for rockets.

Pete

 

[prv]

Are they insane ? somebody at a south coast marina, cant remember which one, did just that chucked them in the big wheelie bin

Could be wrong, but I think it was at Lymington.

Pete

 

[prv]

I got rid of some expired flare, county police headquarters have lead box for explosives storage. Tell them you found them and where.

Hampshire Police told me on the phone that they accepted them at certain stations. I went to one of the ones they named, they kept me hanging around for the best part of an hour, then announced that they no longer accepted flares and showed me a printed flyer to confirm it.

There doesn't seem a whole lot of point since you'll trot it out again in a couple of months, but I will observe for the umpteenth time that lead is an absurd choice of material to store explosives in and if they do or did have such a box it will almost certainly be steel.

Pete

 

[JumbleDuck]

Could be wrong, but I think it was at Lymington.

It certainly did happen there (http://www.pbo.co.uk/news/discarded-distress-flare-ignites-in-dustbin-lorry-6065) but of course it may have happened elsewhere as well.

 

[Daydream believer]

Wondering about this kind of thing is the classic situation of someone who's never tried it. As I said in post #3, demystifying the process so that you know exactly what to expect is a significant benefit of letting off recently-expired flares in an appropriate location.

The handles should not get hot (the OP has already explained why his looked burned). The Pains Wessex Mk8 are particularly good in this regard because of the telescopic design, so you have a substantial length of plastic tube between the handle and the burning part. They're also very solid, no way you'd break one. The Ikaros type with a fixed handle stuck on the end are not quite as good, but still pretty tough plastic.

Given the choice I would aim to hold a lit flare over the water just in case, especially from a raft, but there isn't a significant amount of solid matter being thrown around.

It's really not that dramatic after you've tried it a couple of times.

Actually I have let off a couple many years ago as well as a parachute flare. However, I was under the impression that the flares were "time expired" & i was trying to get some idea of the effect of time on performance.
I asked about the handles because one was broken & burned which did surprise me but the OP answered this quite adequately

After I bought my first flares back in 1968 I purchased a very pistol from Captain O M Watts & used it with white collision flares in anger- 3 times from memory- & that really wakes up a ships helmsman half asleep in the north sea.
Unfortunately I had to hand it in 3 years ago as the shells were no longer available in the UK.

I took it to Maldon police station where the female police officer was more than happy to take the pistol but refused the shells. I took the gun back & said " Ok I will nip outside in the high street & let them off first" & started to leave.
She nearly had an epileptic fit as she rushed around from the counter through the door & grabbed the lot.
Solved that one in an instant !!! Mind you she had half a mind to lock me up for taking the p...s..& gave me a telling off for walking in the street with live ammunition. She got even more annoyed when I pointed out that i would not have done if she had taken it in the first place, so it was her fault.

I think I have found a source of a new pistol & shells & have considered getting a replacement as it is- in my opinion- far safer than flares. The shells are not so unreliable & time limited

 

[CLB]

Pedant Mode On:

The SOLAS rules require the rocket to reach a minimum height of 300 metres when fired vertically. At the top of the trajectory to eject the parachute flare which has to burn red, at 30,000 cd with a burning period of not less than 40 seconds. The rate of descent must not exceed 5 metres per second. From eject to land would be about 60 seconds on that basis leaving a period of about 20 seconds to cool from a height of about 100 metres, These parameters were designed to avoid a burning flare entering oil on the sea surface following for instance a collision between oil tankers.

Pedant Mode OFF:
Having said that you can always get a duff one.

That is interesting. I have fired off quite a few rockets, including some on land at a military firing range. I think all of them were still burning when they hit the deck, or at least when they went out of sight behind trees etc. In fact we started a small bush fire or two and when I asked about going to put them out, the answer was that there was too much unexploded ordinance on the land and they would be left to burn out. No-one seem bothered, so I guess it was quite normal. These were all brand new flares, straight from the manufacturer being used for demo/testing purposes. Certainly no-one from the flare company expressed any concern that they were still burning when they landed. Anyhoo, whether it is intentional or not, the risk of starting a fire with a rocket flare fired onshore is quite serious, and more than a good enough reason on its own to not do it.

 

[dk]

An old cruising friend decided to get rid of some out of date flares on a bonfire night, sad night arrived but it was very very windy. Not deterred he got through the hand held then started on the first of the parachute flares carefully pointing it into the wind at an angle he fired it off only for it to describe a perfect arc and land on a neighbours shed a few doors away which it promptly set alight and spread to the fence which went up like a tinder box. He was mortified, his wife and myself couldn't stop laughing and even today the word flare would set us off.
Unfortunately he was the only sailor in the locality and blame was swiftly attributed and his wallet became considerably lighter.

If I remember rightly they should be fired off downwind. It doesn't seem right, but that's probably why I remember it.

 

[Plum]

If I remember rightly they should be fired off downwind. It doesn't seem right, but that's probably why I remember it.

You are righ to fire parachute flares downwind, but only slightly downwind, no more than 20 degrees from the vertical in strong wind. It is the burning tail that is influenced by the wind more than the body so the wind on the burning tail will straighten it to the vertical. If you angle it much more than 20 degrees from the vertical it then tends to continue to fly downwind at a low angle so you will not get the height you need and will hit the ground way before the flare stops burning. Obviously, in light to moderate winds, fire vertically.

But please do not fire off when not in distress. Many hours are wasted by the rescue services each year responding to sightings of red flares, even when sighted inland.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Hampshire Police told me on the phone that they accepted them at certain stations. I went to one of the ones they named, they kept me hanging around for the best part of an hour, then announced that they no longer accepted flares and showed me a printed flyer to confirm it.

There doesn't seem a whole lot of point since you'll trot it out again in a couple of months, but I will observe for the umpteenth time that lead is an absurd choice of material to store explosives in and if they do or did have such a box it will almost certainly be steel.

Pete

A lead box or lead lined was was traditionally used to avoid the possibility of creating a spark.

 

[elton]

If you call the Coastguard they will tell you where their nearest collection point is although you should make an appointment as they may not always be able to take them if you turn up unannounced, particularly if their storage container is full.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

Coastguard told me they no longer accept them, and they didn't know who does. Though I've been told many pyrotechnic vendors take them for a small fee.

 

[Plomong]

Pedant Mode On:

The SOLAS rules require the rocket to reach a minimum height of 300 metres when fired vertically. At the top of the trajectory to eject the parachute flare which has to burn red, at 30,000 cd with a burning period of not less than 40 seconds. The rate of descent must not exceed 5 metres per second. From eject to land would be about 60 seconds on that basis leaving a period of about 20 seconds to cool from a height of about 100 metres, These parameters were designed to avoid a burning flare entering oil on the sea surface following for instance a collision between oil tankers.

Pedant Mode OFF:
Having said that you can always get a duff one.

And when you don't get a duff one, not even one in a batch of 6 you have loosed off together, the show is spectacular.

And the height achieved was a good bit more than 300 m.

Only downside -- each rocket comes to ground as a metal cylinder that could cause damage to a neighbours roof, if you have near neighbours.

Just my tuppence worth.

Around here, in fishing ports, New Years Eve is the chosen flare disposal time. With all the rest going up, a few dozen rocket flares would not be noticed, at all at all.

Plomong

 

[Plum]

Coastguard told me they no longer accept them, and they didn't know who does. Though I've been told many pyrotechnic vendors take them for a small fee.

Many Coastguard sites do still take them, you just need to find the closest one to you. Sorry but not familiiar with your area. Here in Essex they still take them at Walton (even though this site closed as a MRCC nearly two years ago)

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[Daydream believer]

Just trying to think laterally
Are there any chemists on the forum who could tell us if just leaving the flares in, say, a bucket of acid, for a few days would dissolve the pyrotechnic parts of the flare?
Do they really need to be burned?
If it turned out that we could leave them in some patio magic for a while it might make disposal much easier
There are companies who take contaminated liquids for disposal

At a push one could just dig a hole at the bottom of the garden & bury it, if it was just a small quantity of non explosive liquid. It would soon lose its corrosive properties.