Flags, etiquette and Respect.

Slowboat35

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Just a gentle suggestion to those who value manners and protocol that "half mast" does NOT mean flag halfway up or down the flagpole...That is an unsightly error.

'Half mast' refers only to masts and free-standing poles designed for the display of flags. It does not refer to the short staffs such as we typically have on our boats.

Half Mast means the flag is briskly raised as normal to full-hoist and then lowered to either a flag's width below the peak and no more than one third of the way down the mast.

If your staff (as is the case on almost all yachts/boats) is not long enough to achieve this then it implies the flag should remain at full hoist on the staff and ideally be adorned with black ribbon(s) -( to be as long as the flag and attached near it's upper clew) . A black border sewn on would also be perfectly acceptable.

Think of it tis way...any proper flagpole/mast will be tall enough to achieve the one width/one third protocol. If the pole is too short is is likely not actually to be a flagpole or mast at all, more a staf as carried for instance by troops or the British Legion etc which is by necessity fixed on the pole. Lowering the flag on the staff in this case would clearly be inappropriate and look daft. Thus it should be decorated by black ribbons of mourning instead, or just flown as normal.

I'm only writing this as a suggestion to those who wish to do the thing properly and respectfully and without errors, as our late Lady Queen has endeavoured to to to us all her life.

Those with other ideas will doubtless do whatever they wish anyway and need not cast nastutiums on those who merely wish to be respectful and correct.
 

rotrax

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Whilst understanding where you are coming from, most of the nearby boats here in Newlyn with crew aboard have put there ensigns at half hoist. I informed the French crew on the adjacent Amel who imediately furled their French flag which has been flying since Sunday. A nice touch from them.

Probably because black ribbons are rarely found on small boats.

I have some black sailties which might suffice, but that can wait till tomorrow.
 

Slowboat35

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Why, I wonder, would a Frenchman furl his flag? Don't get that.
Still, evidently a respectful gesture.
 
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Plum

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Why, I wonder, would a Frenchman furl his flag? Don't get that.
Still, evidently a respectful gesture.
According to www.college-of-arms.gov.uk "Half-mast means the flag is flown two-thirds of the way up the flagpole with at least the height of the flag between the top of the flag and the top of the flag pole. If more than one flag is flown, they should all be raised at half-mast or not flown at all. Flags of foreign nations should not be flown unless their country is also observing mourning."

www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk
 

Slowboat35

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Thank you for that Plum. I wasn't aware of that bit!
Thus I understand the froggie wasn't polite enough to observe mourning so one can harly have any sympathy for him at all.
 

Resolution

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I am told that Navy protocol is for ensigns to be flown (or should that be “worn”) at half mast from the announcement of the death up until the end of the day of the funeral, with the exception of the Proclamation Day when they are hoisted to the top of the flag pole.
Tomorrow is I believe Charles’ Proclamation day.
 

Bran

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I am not certain that proclamation day is Friday. Normally it is the day after the sovereigns death but because it happened later in the day everything has been pushed back a day. BBC are reporting that he will be proclaimed on Saturday.
Important to me as we are heading up through Windsor on our boat this Friday and I want to get it right. Anyone able to confirm this?
Have made up a black mourning cravat as we cannot fly at half mast due to short length of flag pole. Was difficult sewing the cravat with eyes full of tears.
 

MADRIGAL

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I am not certain that proclamation day is Friday. Normally it is the day after the sovereigns death but because it happened later in the day everything has been pushed back a day. BBC are reporting that he will be proclaimed on Saturday.
Important to me as we are heading up through Windsor on our boat this Friday and I want to get it right. Anyone able to confirm this?
Have made up a black mourning cravat as we cannot fly at half mast due to short length of flag pole. Was difficult sewing the cravat with eyes full of tears.
Could your vessel accommodate a longer ensign staff? Madrigal acquired a slightly longer one to use in harbour following the death of HRH the late Duke of Edinburgh, so that we could observe the 1/3 staff rule for half-masting. I put it away in the sad knowledge that this day would eventually come.
 

Bran

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Could your vessel accommodate a longer ensign staff? Madrigal acquired a slightly longer one to use in harbour following the death of HRH the late Duke of Edinburgh, so that we could observe the 1/3 staff rule for half-masting. I put it away in the sad knowledge that this day would eventually come.
I am ok with the cravats, it’s the timing of the proclamation day I am not sure about.
Edited, I see that the BBC are now reporting flags to be raised at 13:00 on Saturday, returning to half mast tha next day.
 

Portofino

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Suspect iam responsible in some way for this thread because I posting this pic , done 10 mins after the announcement .
Which attracted a lot of unhelpful scorn on another thread , now merged with the gen morning thread by the mods .They also kindly deleted what appeared to be far from friendly or constructive replies .Thank you mods .

27D94CFB-A66C-45E3-9E8B-C92AE07CAE61.jpeg

Having read the OP s informative opening post …..trying again with the 1/2 , 1/3 rd rule ?

DFC35834-B83B-43EE-BC1A-02DF667D8A7B.jpeg
 

Poignard

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I am not on board my boat so it's of academic interest only but I have no ensign staff. Instead, the ensign halyard is rove through a block seized to one of the back stays, about 1.5m above the deck.

What should be done in that case?
 

chrishscorp

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I am ok with the cravats, it’s the timing of the proclamation day I am not sure about.
Edited, I see that the BBC are now reporting flags to be raised at 13:00 on Saturday, returning to half mast tha next day.

Yes looks like what was planned is being altered, I was going to take the flag down last night but it was very clear the flag over Buckingham palace remained up overnight so I left village flag up.
So full mast at 1300 on Saturday then back to half mast Sunday morning

With flags on angled poles or backstays the instruction is to have a black cravat as that is clear to see, If i had nothing to hand then I too would do what Portfino has done
 

Plum

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dunedin

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I think that flag does not get lowered because the monarch is in place i.e The King. Happy to be corrected but I am sure I read that last night on a BBC article.
Surely the monarch’s standard was not hoisted at Buckingham Palace yesterday, as it would have flown over Balmoral Castle - and would have remained up throughout as Charles was also there, until he left this morning.
Buck House should have had a regular flag, and dropped to half mast with the others - until King Charles 3 arrives later today.
 

Bran

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Yes looks like what was planned is being altered, I was going to take the flag down last night but it was very clear the flag over Buckingham palace remained up overnight so I left village flag up.
So full mast at 1300 on Saturday then back to half mast Sunday morning

With flags on angled poles or backstays the instruction is to have a black cravat as that is clear to see, If i had nothing to hand then I too would do what Portfino has done

Some conflicting information on various websites, however the government have produced some guidance. My interpretation from this document is that if a flag cannot be flown at half mast it should not be flown. I have removed my ensign.
The principal proclamation starts at 11:00, flags should be raised at this time until 1 hour after the proclamation is read in Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland which means flags back down at 13:00 on Sunday.
Here is a direct link to the government advice on flag flying during this period:
Flag flying guidance following the death of Her Majesty The Queen
Here is a link to the proclamation times:
Accession Council and Principal Proclamation
Wanted to get this correct as we are moored at Windsor and I didn’t want to show any disrespect .
 

Slowboat35

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From the Horses mouth, the RNSA...

Half-Masting Procedure

20220909_Ensign_with%20_black_ribbon.jpg
For those of you afloat, you would wish to be aware of the following guidance regarding flag etiquette during the period of National Mourning.
Flags flown at half-mast are to be flown with the top of the flag positioned two thirds of the way up the pole/mast/halyard, but not less than one flag breadth from the top. Flags are not to be flown at half-mast from flag poles that are greater than 45 degrees from the vertical. In this instance either a black cravat or ribbon is to be added to the top of the flag at the hoist or the flag is to be removed. In order to show respect, when flags are raised, they are to be raised to full-mast and held for 2 seconds before being lowered to half-mast and secured. Similarly, when lowering the flag, it should be raised to full-mast and held for 2 seconds before being fully lowered. Flags flown permanently are to be lowered and raised again.
Once routinely flown flags have been half-masted, they should be flown 24 hours per day until further notice. This directive supersedes single service flag protocols.
Flags will be flown at full-mast at all locations from the time the principal proclamation of the accession of His Majesty the King is read, until the regional proclamations have completed. Exact dates and times will be notified by the Palace, but is antcipated to be for 24 hours from 1100 on 10 September.
Ensigns will return to full mast from colours the day after the funeral.
 
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