Flag of convenience

[trev]

Has anyone ever tried to register a boat under a flag of convenience? - Liberia, Panama, Cayman Islands etc.
Ship owners (upstanding British citizens!) do this all the time, and thus avoid a plethora of nit picking rules.
Would such a registry be able to circumvent RCD and EC regs?
I'm speaking as a prospective importer direct from USA (Miami boat show ) of a well built and well found boat of a type already on sale in UK, but at an inflated price. I'm also heartily sick of jobworths telling me what I can or can't do !
Perhaps there's a mag article here somewhere Kim ?




Trev<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by kimhollamby on Wed Jan 30 08:21:03 2002 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[kimhollamby]

There's only an article in it if it proves practical - and I've got a horrible feeling that there would be any number of alternative hoops to jump through that would make it well nigh impossible to do what you suggest. Complete supposition but suspect there's some stuff to consider about number of days in UK, crew quailifications and so on. That's not to say though that one of these countries might not see it as a business opportunity.

I'm giving up here and wait to see other posts with interest!

Associate Publisher ybw.com websites kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com

 

[byron]

A flag of convenience doesn't always protect you. If a vessel arrives in a British port and a UK Inspector finds that say there has been too much oily waste left in the Engine Room then he can and will forbid it from sailing. There are a whole host of things that can be applied against a vessel. Evince the Liner under stay of movement in Dover at this time.

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[CPN]

Don't know if Malta counts as a Flag of Convenience, but registry in Malta may allow you to avoid many EU annoyances such as VAT.
Look in http://www.malta-yachting.com/index1.html under "News and Information, Yacht registry", which explains the registration procedure.

Would be interested to hear of your experience.

 

[tcm]

For pleasure boats in the med, the UK flag itself was (especially until change in MCA regs) seen a fairly convenient flag. Registration in offshore islands (douglas, guernsey, jersey) of lots of vessels is used to mitigate VAT.

But with all of these things, there's always a nagging doubt in the back of the mind. You always have to be ready with the pasports, the registration documents, the legal info, the convoluted albeit watertight explanation of why you (a brit) is on this boat (registered where?) with a UK flag, in French waters. With another flag, perhaps of Liberia? Panama? the customs men would aim for you before any others in the solent.

Quite separately from boats, I understand that if you are paid (or pay staff) in Krugerrands, there's no NI to be paid - but can you imagine the alarm bells that would ring at the inland revenue or VAT office "oh really sir, yes very interesting, do come in and tell us all about it..."

Our boat had a non-EC-sounding name, but I'd never do it again. Sitting in French waters, with a UK flag and a name that looked as though the boat came from South Africa....we spent several hours a year with customs men on board. They always went away eventually.

Flags and names are the first sign to the authorities that "something is going on". The first issue is whether you've paid vat, secondary is why the hell the boat isn't registered somewhere "normal".

Our next boat will not sound non-EC and will be vat-paid in France with French flag, and normally stay in French waters. No more "uh-oh it's the customs men" for me whilst on the boat. It's supposed to be a holiday, see?

 

[kimhollamby]

Out of interest, if you are going French flag what are the implications for skipper qualifications etc?

Associate Publisher ybw.com websites kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com

 

[kimhollamby]

Oily waste under engineroom isn't the half of it. When in the MBM offices I used to see the MCA reports of vessels detailed and they were greatly entertaining...might try and find some of the better examples if anyone interested. But they included bulkheads completely rusted through, 12 tribes of rats, lifeboats rusted to davits so hard that they had to be cut off, paper thin decks, insecure hatch covers, charts dating from the 1950s and so on. All mostly FOC ships.

Associate Publisher ybw.com websites kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com

 

[tcm]

Re: Fraench qualifications

Well, ahem, this has been touched on before! There are several levels of powerboat qualification in france BUT the tests are all in French! So, it's okay to have a UK qualification and a nice transalation into French, say all the brokers. This sounds entirely reaonable: if you get a parking ticket in France and ask the nice man in the restaurant or hotel what it's all about/where to pay, they say that it's only for french people, and not to worry yourself...

However, the dealer announced that he'd "pay for a French skipper" for the first season AFTER the deal was done and deposit paid, which initially got me wurid, and still seems just 2 good to be true.

Insurance seem to be the most interesting - not one of the four places tried for a quote has asked for any qualifications at all. I wonder if, with bigger boats, the qualifications of the skipper has much less a bearing on the claims record? Less-qualifieds stay in the marinas? Crack someone else's boat and it's only a few quid (relatively) anyway i suppose. Whereas if pro skipper, likely to be using it more and out in daft weather? In any event, the TV going pop is more likely to resuilt in fire etc. especially on naff old sunseeker 80 with CRT instead of LCD screens...

 

[chrisc]

Re: Fraench qualifications

Surely if you have a french registered boat ,normally kept in france
you need french qualifications -you are no longer a visiting yachtsman?
or can you get away with this ?

 

[tcm]

Re:Rules in France

Well, we'll soon see!

There isn't the slightest trace of the "headmistress" gene in French people. If you can get to the front of the queue, or if a bank robber can leap out of a courtroom window, or want to overtake someone even though they're already going faster than the speed limit, that's fine. Further, the idea of being a French policeman of any type is to have a nice secure job, not to go round nicking people - unlike the UK, where anyone with a uniform primarily wants to assume miltary powers, not to help anyone.

 

[byron]

I was once asked to take a Honduran registered Coaster from the UK to Italy, I went to do a bridge inspection and found there was only one VHF connected to a car battery in a box on the Monkey Island and charged by a £5 Halfords charger. The Radar was a 1980s vintage Electronic Labs Seavayor, the stern lights were on a household switch mounted on the stern, the charts were missing completely and there were no log books. Strangely the Chief Engineer I went down with said the Engine and engine room were a joy.

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