Ecosse120
Well-Known Member
I am sure that this has been covered before but which flags can I fly and were from (polite answers only !!). I have an ensign off the single backstay but wanted to know where I should fly, when I get one, the forum flag.
Flag Etiquette
- Thread starter Ecosse120
- Start date
Dyflin
Well-Known Member
Port side of the crosstress I believe. To be really picky, if you fly the ensign from the backstay, it should (must??) be 2/3 of the way up the backstay.
VicS
Well-Known Member
Yes Flag etiquette has been done to death on here. Some will say it's all aload of tosh anyway.
However I suggest you get youself a copy of the RYA booklet on flag etiquette and signalling It contains just about all you are likely to need to know.
However I suggest you get youself a copy of the RYA booklet on flag etiquette and signalling It contains just about all you are likely to need to know.
ColinHuggins
N/A
Srry Dyflin but certainly NOT on the port side!
The most important position is the after part of the ship, so we fly the most important flag, the ensign, from a special staff at the stern if possible. 2/3 up the backstay is common useage but described as unsatisfactory in my rulebook of yesteryear. In other words, you're expected to buy a flagstaff for the job!
Personally I think that makes sense, because when racing your E-boat you will have a class or culb burgee on the backstay and it's a chore removing same when you finish racing (or retire!). Sticking the ensign staff back into its socket is easy and tells the world that you are no longer racing. And more likely to sail in a reasonable and logical way? Don't answer that!
The secnd most important position is the masthead, but that is usually so cluttered with electronic gizmos as to be inaccessible. So move on to the 3rd most important position, the righthand crosstree. That's where your principal club burgee should be hoisted. Some people hoist a whole string of burgees there (how can they afford the subs?) but certainly signal flags go onto the other side, for the port crosstree is the 4th position.
A Q flag when rentering the Channel Islands is a signal and should be flown on the port side, but a courtesy ensign when in French waters should go on the right, immediately under your club burgee if it's not up at the masthead. Anywhere less important will cause agro with the maritime police who can be quite onjectionable at the slightest pretext.
Clear? Don't worry, these customs are fast being eroded. people don't stand to attention when Colours are made at 0800 any more! But whatever short cuts you take there is no point in deliberately breaking a code which has stood for centuries - it immediately idebntifies you as a plonker!
As for the Forum Burgee itself, that's another issue . . . watch this space!!
The most important position is the after part of the ship, so we fly the most important flag, the ensign, from a special staff at the stern if possible. 2/3 up the backstay is common useage but described as unsatisfactory in my rulebook of yesteryear. In other words, you're expected to buy a flagstaff for the job!
Personally I think that makes sense, because when racing your E-boat you will have a class or culb burgee on the backstay and it's a chore removing same when you finish racing (or retire!). Sticking the ensign staff back into its socket is easy and tells the world that you are no longer racing. And more likely to sail in a reasonable and logical way? Don't answer that!
The secnd most important position is the masthead, but that is usually so cluttered with electronic gizmos as to be inaccessible. So move on to the 3rd most important position, the righthand crosstree. That's where your principal club burgee should be hoisted. Some people hoist a whole string of burgees there (how can they afford the subs?) but certainly signal flags go onto the other side, for the port crosstree is the 4th position.
A Q flag when rentering the Channel Islands is a signal and should be flown on the port side, but a courtesy ensign when in French waters should go on the right, immediately under your club burgee if it's not up at the masthead. Anywhere less important will cause agro with the maritime police who can be quite onjectionable at the slightest pretext.
Clear? Don't worry, these customs are fast being eroded. people don't stand to attention when Colours are made at 0800 any more! But whatever short cuts you take there is no point in deliberately breaking a code which has stood for centuries - it immediately idebntifies you as a plonker!
As for the Forum Burgee itself, that's another issue . . . watch this space!!
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
One of the problems with Flag etiquette is that some people take it VERY seriously and some people seem to take the micky with the things they hoist on their boats. If you are a UK boat with a UK owner (its a bit more complicated that this...) you fly the RED ENSIGN. People get very shirty about you flying anything else.
Burgees are officially flown from the masthead - although in practice most people fly them from the starboard crosstrees. If you go abroad and need to fly a courtesy ensign, things have to get swapped round - but that's the basics, and should stop too many people getting hot under their collars.
If you really want to annoy a lot of people, try hoisting Euro-ensigns (technically there is no such thing) or a privilege ensign (Blue for instance) without a warrant or a burgee to show why you are wearing it....
Burgees are officially flown from the masthead - although in practice most people fly them from the starboard crosstrees. If you go abroad and need to fly a courtesy ensign, things have to get swapped round - but that's the basics, and should stop too many people getting hot under their collars.
If you really want to annoy a lot of people, try hoisting Euro-ensigns (technically there is no such thing) or a privilege ensign (Blue for instance) without a warrant or a burgee to show why you are wearing it....
Sultans_Kapitein
RIP
Good post ! Clear and to the point. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Dyflin
Well-Known Member
Sorry, you're right port side is not the correct place at all, however...
2/3 up the backstay is very much the correct place to fly the ensign despite what your book says.
Also on the subject of the burgee being flown over the courtesy flag;
"It is now common practice to fly the burgee at the starboard spreaders, however, no other flag may be flown above the burgee on the same halyard. You also may not fly any other flag above a national courtesy flag on the same halyard. If you fly your burgee at the starboard spreaders and are sailing in the territorial waters of another country you have a dilemma, however you choose to solve this, unless you fly your burgee at the top of the mast you will be contravening one or another element of flag etiquette." RYA Flag Etiquette
I would consider it very bad practice to fly a club burgee over a courtesy flag, but we'll agree to disagree.
2/3 up the backstay is very much the correct place to fly the ensign despite what your book says.
Also on the subject of the burgee being flown over the courtesy flag;
"It is now common practice to fly the burgee at the starboard spreaders, however, no other flag may be flown above the burgee on the same halyard. You also may not fly any other flag above a national courtesy flag on the same halyard. If you fly your burgee at the starboard spreaders and are sailing in the territorial waters of another country you have a dilemma, however you choose to solve this, unless you fly your burgee at the top of the mast you will be contravening one or another element of flag etiquette." RYA Flag Etiquette
I would consider it very bad practice to fly a club burgee over a courtesy flag, but we'll agree to disagree.
st599
Well-Known Member
What if you've got two signal halyards at the starboard spreaders? Can a burgee and courtesy flag be flown at the same height?
Dyflin
Well-Known Member
In that case I'd fly the courtesy flag on the outboard side, but I can see no reason why the two can't then be at the same height. It really just comes down to not having one flag above another on the same hoist.
moodycruiser
Well-Known Member
Saw a benny in Totland on saturday flying the red duster from his flagpole at the stern and a stars and stripes on the port flag halyard.
mcframe
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Saw a benny in Totland on saturday flying the red duster from his flagpole at the stern and a stars and stripes on the port flag halyard.
[/ QUOTE ]
Easy - it's British Ship, chartered by a Yank, or with US guests on board.
For fun, the OP could fly:
http://www.mrflag.com/index.php?doc=4&pid=4941
from one of the crosstrees as a house flag, *in addition* to a red ensign at the stern ;-) - I use one as my house flag when chartering in the Med.
For annoyance value, he could fly it (assuming <50 tons and not entering a foreign port, nor hailed by the RN) from the stern and try dipping it to Grey Funnel Line ship - they should *not* respond :->
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1995/Ukpga_19950021_en_2.htm#mdiv5
The case of a Spansh-registered boat, chartered to a Brit skipper, with German guests aboard, arriving in France is LAAEFTR...
Saw a benny in Totland on saturday flying the red duster from his flagpole at the stern and a stars and stripes on the port flag halyard.
[/ QUOTE ]
Easy - it's British Ship, chartered by a Yank, or with US guests on board.
For fun, the OP could fly:
http://www.mrflag.com/index.php?doc=4&pid=4941
from one of the crosstrees as a house flag, *in addition* to a red ensign at the stern ;-) - I use one as my house flag when chartering in the Med.
For annoyance value, he could fly it (assuming <50 tons and not entering a foreign port, nor hailed by the RN) from the stern and try dipping it to Grey Funnel Line ship - they should *not* respond :->
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1995/Ukpga_19950021_en_2.htm#mdiv5
The case of a Spansh-registered boat, chartered to a Brit skipper, with German guests aboard, arriving in France is LAAEFTR...
MedMan
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry Dyflin but certainly NOT on the port side!
[/ QUOTE ] I have to disagree. The port spreader is the ONLY place from which to fly a house flag for the reasons that you explained so admirably (or should that be admirally?!)
Ensign from the stern - the most important position because that is where the officers live.
Burgee from the masthead (position 2) or, if that is not available, from the starboard spreader (position 3). That leaves port spreader (position 4) for odds and ends like the Q flag or house flags.
As others have said, this nice scheme falls apart when you are abroad as the courtesy flag should go into position 3. Logically, if you have moved the burgee to position 3 because of masthead clutter, you would then move the courtesy flag to position 4 (port spreader) However, this may be seen as as a slight or even illegal by foreign officials. so it is not to be recommended.
We side-step the issue by forgetting the burgee and flying our CA houseflag to port. (We wear red, not blue, so no requirement to fly a burgee) That leaves starboard for the courtesy flag.
Sorry Dyflin but certainly NOT on the port side!
[/ QUOTE ] I have to disagree. The port spreader is the ONLY place from which to fly a house flag for the reasons that you explained so admirably (or should that be admirally?!)
Ensign from the stern - the most important position because that is where the officers live.
Burgee from the masthead (position 2) or, if that is not available, from the starboard spreader (position 3). That leaves port spreader (position 4) for odds and ends like the Q flag or house flags.
As others have said, this nice scheme falls apart when you are abroad as the courtesy flag should go into position 3. Logically, if you have moved the burgee to position 3 because of masthead clutter, you would then move the courtesy flag to position 4 (port spreader) However, this may be seen as as a slight or even illegal by foreign officials. so it is not to be recommended.
We side-step the issue by forgetting the burgee and flying our CA houseflag to port. (We wear red, not blue, so no requirement to fly a burgee) That leaves starboard for the courtesy flag.
ColinHuggins
N/A
Ah Dyflin (do you have a proper name? I was never any good at Blind Dates) I did say my rulebook was vintage - like this scribe. It's also the RYA bible, but I bought it in 1960 to learn Semaphore . . .
In that publication flying the ensign anywhere up the backstay is derided because it "curls behind the lee of the sail and does not fly out".
Your concept of hoisting flags 'in parallel' is bizarre, completely at odds with the established positions of priority outlined above - besides, you couldn't distinguish between them from abeam. But it would appear that the RYA has moved the goalposts in 40 years, and admitting that there's a dilemma is no excuse for creating confusion (albeit in only one tiny mind.)
I'll get on to them and report back.
(Thinks: perhaps useful info is going to come out of this chat room for once . . .)
In that publication flying the ensign anywhere up the backstay is derided because it "curls behind the lee of the sail and does not fly out".
Your concept of hoisting flags 'in parallel' is bizarre, completely at odds with the established positions of priority outlined above - besides, you couldn't distinguish between them from abeam. But it would appear that the RYA has moved the goalposts in 40 years, and admitting that there's a dilemma is no excuse for creating confusion (albeit in only one tiny mind.)
I'll get on to them and report back.
(Thinks: perhaps useful info is going to come out of this chat room for once . . .)
moodycruiser
Well-Known Member
I did wonder... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
