Flag Etiquette -- concept of "Senior vessel"

superheat6k said:
Whilst at sea it should reman flying 24 hours a day. The Sunset Colours rules only apply in harbour.
Click to expand...

Is this really so ?? Other references consulted say that the ensign should only be flown on the high seas when passing another vessel, and of course when approaching a port or in the territorial waters of a country other than that of registry.

Plomong
 
TLouth7 said:
You clearly solved your quandary satisfactorily, but for others' reference there is an established signal for "No, I do not require assistance": raise one arm up and slightly to the side, the other down and slightly to the side. This represents the diagonal line of a capital N. The opposite is both arms raised to form a capital Y. The most familiar situation that this is applied is to indicate to rescue helicopters whether you are the party they are looking for/whether they should land.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much. Very useful gems of knowledge !!!
 
BelleSerene said:
Dom, thank you.

Say, the reference (at 9138) is to ‘merchant ships’ lowering their colours to a warship and the warship returning the salute ‘punctiliously’. Interestingly, there’s no direction as to what to do when saluted by a pleasure vessel such as (I take it) you or (certainly) me. Do you think it’s left undefined in order to leave the compliment to the Captain’s discretion but to avoid HMSs being abused by flotillas of chuckling yotties?
Click to expand...

As I understand it, a "pleasure vessel" is considered to be a "merchant vessel", there being no specific definition or category with the former name.
 
Plomong said:
As I understand it, a "pleasure vessel" is considered to be a "merchant vessel", there being no specific definition or category with the former name.
Click to expand...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_ship

[FONT=&quot]A [/FONT][FONT=&quot]merchant ship, merchant vessel, trading vessel, or merchantman is a watercraft that transports cargo or carries passengers for hire. This is in contrast to pleasure craft, which are used for personal recreation, and naval ships, which are used for military purposes.

[/FONT]​
http://maritime-connector.com/wiki/merchant-vessels/
[FONT=&quot]
Merchant vessels are ships that are primarily used either for carrying cargo or passengers. Basically, the ships that are engaged in active commercial transportation fall in this category. The navy ships or pleasure craft that don’t charge passengers are excluded from the category of merchant vessels.[/FONT]​
 
Old Bumbulum said:
Surely it is blindingly obvious that it is not appropriate or required to salute a vessel within the confines of a harbour where they most probably have better things to do than reply to the mischievous salute of every bum-boat, carrq, garbage scow and YBW feckwitted yacht that happens to pass by with a skipper intent on infantile mischief.

That, then, is why you DON'T salute a warship within the bounds of a harbour.
And why you might not expect a response if you are so dim/rude as to try. Even so, the Navy, being a Professional organisation will do it's damdest to respond even to those imbeciles if it possibly can, simply out of pure courtesty. Even courtesty extended to the sort of rsoles who try, pathetically, to elicit a response to a salute in harbour. That merely exemplifies the difference between professionals and amateurs.

Salutng in harbour? D'uh oh!
It isn't clever. It makes you look a total rsole - indeed proves it. In full public view.

Own goal, Lemmings!
Click to expand...
Where did that come from? In the incident I was referring to, the warship had left harbour and I hadn't arrived. Having said that, I agree with everything you say apart from your opinion that dipping is "infantile mischief". You are entitled to your opinion but I prefer to see it as an ancient tradition worth maintaining.
 
Only in a UK forum.... In the US, if you are close enough that a US Navy vessel can see your puny flag, you are too darn close and should be focused on going the other way. Saluting is WAY down the priority list.

USCG Regulation:

All vessels within 500 yards of a U.S. naval vessel shall operate at the minimum speed necessary to maintain a safe course and shall proceed as directed by the official patrol; a Coast Guard commissioned, warrant or petty officer; or the Commanding Officer of a U.S. naval vessel or his or her designee).
• No vessel is allowed within 100 yards of a U.S. naval vessel, unless authorized by the official patrol.
•Vessels requesting to pass within 100 yards of a U.S. naval vessel shall contact the official patrol on VHF-FM channel 16. The official patrol may permit vessels that can only operate safely in a navigable channel to pass within 100 yards of a U.S. naval vessel in order to ensure a safe passage in accordance with the Navigation Rules.
•Commercial vessels anchored in a designated anchorage area may be permitted to remain at anchor within 100 yards of passing naval vessels.

This also includes large commercial shipping.

Although the rule allows for navigation within 500 yards, you will frequently be challenged and told to move away, so we consider the exclusion zone to be 500 yards. If the ship is larger than a destroyer, this is a given. Non-compliance is a felony, punishable by up to 6 years in jail.

We deeply respect the US Navy and those who serve, but 99% of US sailors would consider this thread silly. Better to focus on safe navigation and listening to the radio.
 
Last edited:
Plomong said:
Interesting trigger condition for the action "Lower Ensign" !!!

Out of curiosity, on a sub running on the surface, when an emergency dive is ordered, who lowers and stows the ensign ??? Last off the bridge or whtever the nest at the top of the sail is called ???

Plomong
Click to expand...

Ah, the days of emergency diving are long gone. It can take more than 15 minutes for a controlled dive on modern boats. Perhaps the submesibles with their diesl donks can still do it a bit quicker.

So the bridge lookout on top of the fin (RN) takes the ensign plus a few other bits and pices below followed by the Officer Of The Watch who shuts and clips the conning tower hatches top and bottom as he returns to the Control Room.

The Captain will be on the Periscope.....or TV these days, in charge of the diving manouver. :encouragement:
 
capnsensible said:
Too difficult for them? :)
Click to expand...

Indeed, having been shot at by them on three continents I can attest that Cletus's flag recognition is almost as poor as his marksmanship, though both are possibly better than their ship handling on recent form.
 
Last edited:
Years ago during CW we (big old sailing boat) were trying to keep our punters amused but not get in the way of the racing. All we could do really was reach up and down between Gurnard and Osborne Bay. Each time we passed the Royal Yacht we could see the poor bloke on the ensign with his arms a-blur responding to all the yachts dipping to her. We had already shown our respects when she was underway and so, instead, we searched through an ancient copy of the Admiralty Code of Signals and next time we passed her hoisted the signal "our patient is covered in buboes and passes frequent stools like rice water." Half a mile further on and we winded and dropped back past her again. She acknowledged our signal and hoisted "sounds dreadful, we wish your patient a swift recovery".
 
thinwater said:
Only in a UK forum.... In the US, if you are close enough that a US Navy vessel can see your puny flag, you are too darn close and should be focused on going the other way. Saluting is WAY down the priority list.

USCG Regulation:

All vessels within 500 yards of a U.S. naval vessel shall operate at the minimum speed necessary to maintain a safe course and shall proceed as directed by the official patrol; a Coast Guard commissioned, warrant or petty officer; or the Commanding Officer of a U.S. naval vessel or his or her designee).
• No vessel is allowed within 100 yards of a U.S. naval vessel, unless authorized by the official patrol.
•Vessels requesting to pass within 100 yards of a U.S. naval vessel shall contact the official patrol on VHF-FM channel 16. The official patrol may permit vessels that can only operate safely in a navigable channel to pass within 100 yards of a U.S. naval vessel in order to ensure a safe passage in accordance with the Navigation Rules.
•Commercial vessels anchored in a designated anchorage area may be permitted to remain at anchor within 100 yards of passing naval vessels.

This also includes large commercial shipping.

Although the rule allows for navigation within 500 yards, you will frequently be challenged and told to move away, so we consider the exclusion zone to be 500 yards. If the ship is larger than a destroyer, this is a given. Non-compliance is a felony, punishable by up to 6 years in jail.

We deeply respect the US Navy and those who serve, but 99% of US sailors would consider this thread silly. Better to focus on safe navigation and listening to the radio.
Click to expand...

I am sure they would.
However they will most likely confirm.
Just because the order is silly it’s not sufficient excuse for not following the orders.

I have always found the USN quite polite regarding flags.
But.
Rather testy if you give thier actual Name or No over the radio.

Apparently if you get to close. They will shoot.
 
Major_Clanger said:
Years ago during CW we (big old sailing boat) were trying to keep our punters amused but not get in the way of the racing. All we could do really was reach up and down between Gurnard and Osborne Bay. Each time we passed the Royal Yacht we could see the poor bloke on the ensign with his arms a-blur responding to all the yachts dipping to her. We had already shown our respects when she was underway and so, instead, we searched through an ancient copy of the Admiralty Code of Signals and next time we passed her hoisted the signal "our patient is covered in buboes and passes frequent stools like rice water." Half a mile further on and we winded and dropped back past her again. She acknowledged our signal and hoisted "sounds dreadful, we wish your patient a swift recovery".
Click to expand...

MMS or MMF 27, MIP.

MVB, MUE.

MVQ:)
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top