Fisher owners!! Please be honest...
- Thread starter dancrane
- Start date
WightMistress
Member
Re head height in a Fisher: I own a Fisher 34 and am 5ft 10'' tall. Both my sons are 6ft 2" and the wheelhouse presents them with no problems at all. I am buried in a couple of repair jobs right now, but I will pop down to the boat (85 paces from back door = heaven) and do a measure, then report back. By the way, I love Leonard Cohen. Just thought of a lovely name for a boat: 'Suzanne.' 
WightMistress
Member
Yes, the sloop rig idea did come in a bit later I think. I think they all (maybe not the 37 and 46) look fine as sloops, and the modern rig would aim with pointing a bit, but I love my ketch rig and it works well even with mizzen and reefed genoa in a strong blow. This said, with an open, rolling furling main as well, both my petite wife and I can handle sail without leaving the lovely deep cockpit. That, plus being inside on comfy seats with the door shut and the heating on, while it blows a b***t*rd outside and it is a match made in heaven. Wight Mistress is good on full sail up to about 20kts across the deck. We tend to start reefing in at about 18, depending on sea state.*
dancrane
Well-known member
(26th July 2015)
(10th January 2018)
I must admit, Wansworth, I haven't worked out which one of those remarks was not intended to be taken seriously!
...or did you have a sudden U-turn moment? The first quote was here: http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?411524-Small-Motorsailer/page23&highlight=heavenly+twins
rotrax
Well-known member
A good motorsailer trick.
Our boat is a 12 Metre Island Packet SP Cruiser.
Loads of windage, poor sailing ability in absolute terms, long keel so poor manouvering and due to its 1.1 Metre draught, loads of leeway.
But, passage speed averages have gone up by 35%!
We have a Yanmar 110 HP turbo diesel, big prop, huge fuel capacity-1000+ on the engine-superb visibility, self tacking jib and in mast furling.
Comparing logs from our previous aft cockpit yachts, the engine is used only slightly more on passage, about 6% so far.
It is fair to state that those previous boats were not great sailers either!
Our boats are chosen for safety, comfort alongside and on the hook and ease of living aboard for the whole summer.
Having the main hoisted when motoring on passage is a definite plus, the rolling is much reduced and some drive is given to forward motion. A far closer angle to the wind is another major benifit.
We are travellers by water, not purist sailors. This big, fat, heavy, slow and unwieldy tub suits us fine, especially for summer long cruising.
dancrane
Well-known member
You persuade me, Rotrax, although I already thought that way.
Plenty of passionate boat-owners don't rely on sails at all...they still love being afloat. And most sailing men have engines too...
...so the man whose boat balances pleasing off-wind sailing when he feels like it, plus weatherproof indoor motoring right into the eye of the wind, with no heeling or overlong passage-times...I think any non-sailor would ask, "why aren't all sailing boats like this?"
And there isn't a good answer, that I've heard yet. :encouragement:
Plenty of passionate boat-owners don't rely on sails at all...they still love being afloat. And most sailing men have engines too...
...so the man whose boat balances pleasing off-wind sailing when he feels like it, plus weatherproof indoor motoring right into the eye of the wind, with no heeling or overlong passage-times...I think any non-sailor would ask, "why aren't all sailing boats like this?"
And there isn't a good answer, that I've heard yet. :encouragement:
LittleSister
Well-known member
But, but . . . ! One doesn't have to be putting down motor sailers (I'm not - I have one) to recognise you are giving up some things to get those advantages. Why would anyone ride a motorbike, when you could have the heater and radio on etc., etc., in a car. Why sail a small boat at all, when its faster and more comfortable and spacious in a ferry?
You sail a dinghy, getting (sometimes) cold and wet, and you don't (usually) even get anywhere except back to the same place! Why bother at all? It would be more comfortable sitting in a car, cafe or your living room. You must be getting 'something' out of it. You will get a bit less of that 'something' in a motorsailer than an out-and-out racer. Either would be an excellent choice if it suited you, as would any of the multitude of compromises between.
Even within the range of things called motor-sailers there big variations in emphasis, and hence 'something' quotient. (No names, no pack drill!
) As a young lad I liked messing about in boats, but had never sailed. One day I was taken out for a whizz round Portsmouth Harbour in a sailing dinghy, and I was absolutely captivated. I wonder how much, if anything, of that I would have felt had I been in a motor-sailer.
Your putative non-sailer could find either that a motor-sailer is more palatable than other options, or more pointless!
rotrax
Well-known member
Horses for courses. As you so correctly say, we have chosen a boat which is a big compromise between sailing and motoring. It is substantialy better at the latter. As I suspect most proper motorsailers are.
As I have clearly stated, we are travellers by water, not purist sailors.
We love being on the boat and going places.
50 years of motorcycling in all weathers and plenty of minus tempretures has taught me that motorcycling is to be enjoyed, not endured.
For First Mate and I, so should sailing...................................................
As I have clearly stated, we are travellers by water, not purist sailors.
We love being on the boat and going places.
50 years of motorcycling in all weathers and plenty of minus tempretures has taught me that motorcycling is to be enjoyed, not endured.
For First Mate and I, so should sailing...................................................
Fossil
Member
Just a thought - it isn't so very long ago, in absolute terms that our ancestors travelled to - and colonised when they got there and then set up regular passenger-carrying commercial trading services - in engineless ships that wouldn't go anywhere at all if the wind was forward of the beam. Pointing ability is all very well indeed - essential even if you are on a timetable - but in terms of actually navigating the globe, a boat that will get you there safely and comfortably is probably more useful than one that will do it in the least possible time.
I look at these pictures of crews sailing the Vendee Globe and Volvo races and they look more like submarines. I don't think I'd want to sail anywhere if I was being drenched with water every ten seconds. Fishers and other motor-sailers which could easily sail the same courses in safety and comfort look a lot more realistic in terms of travelling the world by sea.
I look at these pictures of crews sailing the Vendee Globe and Volvo races and they look more like submarines. I don't think I'd want to sail anywhere if I was being drenched with water every ten seconds. Fishers and other motor-sailers which could easily sail the same courses in safety and comfort look a lot more realistic in terms of travelling the world by sea.
WightMistress
Member
A deliciously interesting string of comments. One, which I assume was tongue in cheek, asked about the wheelhouse being plonked etc. Fisher owners know that when Messrs Wyatt and Freeman put the design together, they based it upon a North Sea fishing vessel for the 'front half' and for the canoe stern they were inspired by an 1890s(?) lifeboat. Having been reasonably punished by the sea in JSASTC yachts from '86 to 06, boats from 26 to 55ft, and commercial yachts from 93 to 2011, lengths 34 to 51ft AND Wight Mistress (Fisher 34) I know which is my vessel of choice for everything but 'racing' (something I tend to not do) unless 'racing' against other Fishers, which is enormous fun if not fast. As for the long keel and manoeuvrability, yes I agree that a long keeler can be a bit of a challenge, especially running astern. But, the skill of the skipper is to learn his craft and his 'craft'. Actually the challenge of getting Wight Mistress into a tight spot, astern, downwind and down tide, without resorting to the bow thruster, is extremely satisfying. Having spent many years teaching on Bavarias and the like, I appreciate that they go astern almost as easily as going ahead. What is the fun in that apart from as a learning exercise? So, in sum: a Fisher does everything reasonable well and in much more comfort. By the way, if you add a good bow thruster, a Bruntons Autoprop and a Hydrovane, the performance improves markedly. Oh yes, forgot to add: in extreme situations we invariably have a little bit of mainsail out (external 'on mast' furling and furlable at just about every angle of wind) but we have been known to run on jib and mizzen quite comfortably, still with Vera the Steerer (our hydrovane - another story) keeping the helming watch. Happy sailing.
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dancrane
Well-known member
You make some very good points, Little Sister; but I'm not persuaded. I paraphrase you...
I'm a dinghy sailor, mainly because I don't want the yachts I can afford. True, there are some thrilling (and unnerving) situations to master in an unballasted dinghy; but critically, they're all fair-weather fun. And anyway, doing it is really cheap.
But if I invest thousands in a vessel upon which I need not dress like a frogman to anticipate an unplanned swim at the whim of the wind, I'll also want not to feel dispirited and disappointed every time it begins to rain, which is often as not, in the UK.
The joy of a motor-sailer must be relative immunity from that old English clanger, the weather. Dismal picnic-pooping rain, and a bitter wind to blow the head off your beer...the sailing-yacht brokers' brochures never show that...nor the shattered, green guests heaving in the heeling cabin where the windows are too small and high to see the horizon through. Nobody buys a boat to get that...
...but that's what all the most popular designs, most often deliver. It surprises and fascinates me, that so many boats are sold to so many people who are seriously in pursuit of so few hours of actual pleasure. (They'll be along here shortly, to say they love the rotten weather, too. Perhaps they really do? I suppose they must, because they get a great deal of it, in their open-cockpits.)
Certainly, the motorsailer is a compromise, but it's a bright, warm, versatile, zero-stress, practical compromise, ready for use when you're ready, all year round, not only on a few summer days when the weather's acceptable. I love sailing my dinghy, but I rarely can. Most weekends when I'm not working, the weather's grim. If I had a motor-sailer, I'd spend far more days aboard than at home.
I'm a dinghy sailor, mainly because I don't want the yachts I can afford. True, there are some thrilling (and unnerving) situations to master in an unballasted dinghy; but critically, they're all fair-weather fun. And anyway, doing it is really cheap.
But if I invest thousands in a vessel upon which I need not dress like a frogman to anticipate an unplanned swim at the whim of the wind, I'll also want not to feel dispirited and disappointed every time it begins to rain, which is often as not, in the UK.
The joy of a motor-sailer must be relative immunity from that old English clanger, the weather. Dismal picnic-pooping rain, and a bitter wind to blow the head off your beer...the sailing-yacht brokers' brochures never show that...nor the shattered, green guests heaving in the heeling cabin where the windows are too small and high to see the horizon through. Nobody buys a boat to get that...
...but that's what all the most popular designs, most often deliver. It surprises and fascinates me, that so many boats are sold to so many people who are seriously in pursuit of so few hours of actual pleasure. (They'll be along here shortly, to say they love the rotten weather, too. Perhaps they really do?
I suppose they must, because they get a great deal of it, in their open-cockpits.)Certainly, the motorsailer is a compromise, but it's a bright, warm, versatile, zero-stress, practical compromise, ready for use when you're ready, all year round, not only on a few summer days when the weather's acceptable. I love sailing my dinghy, but I rarely can. Most weekends when I'm not working, the weather's grim. If I had a motor-sailer, I'd spend far more days aboard than at home.
LittleSister
Well-known member
I wasn't trying to persuade you (or anyone) of anything! (I'm all for all sorts of boats.) I was just chewing over some of the issues, sparked by something you said. Sort of thinking out loud, really.
Uricanejack
Well-known member
When I was young I used to cruise around the west coast from the Clyde to Ardnamuruchan in the comfortable wheel house of an Ormidale. Friends had a couple of Fishers to some extent the ability to sail if the mood took them was an advantage to envy.
Later I took up sailing. It’s not so much I enjoyed being cold and wet. I found it exilerating. I like when the motor goes off. The silence, what I still really like is when she heels over the deck edge almost under and starts to shake. Today I like a sail boat and I like to sail it. Wind or no wind rain or shine. I still find my 30 year old Henry Lloyd keeps me almost dry and almost warm enough.
But I have always liked the Fishers. They were very popular for good reasons on the west coast. The 34 would be nice.
When I get a little older and if they ever get cheep enough. All posts saying they are awful are greatly appreciated. They will help.
I would certainly consider getting one.
One of my favourite boats to have sailed is also in the family a 50 year old wooden long keel with a hard dodger or partial wheel house extending back over the cockpit. It’s a very nice compromise. And even though she is a long keel she is a sail boat with a nice sloop rig. She will never beat a modern sail boat but she is a pleasure to sail.
So if a builder were to design and build a modern sailboat with a nice wheel house or partial wheel house to give some shelter I would be interested except I am unlikely to be able to aford it until it has been well used.
In the mean time. Perhaps a spray hood or a dodger will help. Maybe this is why I see so many “stick boats” with a full cockpit tent. Motoring past me.
I should get a tent, I am rather envious.
After all my sailboat had a motor, so I suppose it’s really a “motor sailor”
So I guess it a choice between different “motor sailors” ones which are Motor boats which can be sailed or sailboats which can be motored.
The modern market appears to have chosen the latter while the former are dying out. And those who really want to motor in comfort by Nordhavens and don’t bother with sails.
Later I took up sailing. It’s not so much I enjoyed being cold and wet. I found it exilerating. I like when the motor goes off. The silence, what I still really like is when she heels over the deck edge almost under and starts to shake. Today I like a sail boat and I like to sail it. Wind or no wind rain or shine. I still find my 30 year old Henry Lloyd keeps me almost dry and almost warm enough.
But I have always liked the Fishers. They were very popular for good reasons on the west coast. The 34 would be nice.
When I get a little older and if they ever get cheep enough. All posts saying they are awful are greatly appreciated. They will help.
I would certainly consider getting one.
One of my favourite boats to have sailed is also in the family a 50 year old wooden long keel with a hard dodger or partial wheel house extending back over the cockpit. It’s a very nice compromise. And even though she is a long keel she is a sail boat with a nice sloop rig. She will never beat a modern sail boat but she is a pleasure to sail.
So if a builder were to design and build a modern sailboat with a nice wheel house or partial wheel house to give some shelter I would be interested except I am unlikely to be able to aford it until it has been well used.
In the mean time. Perhaps a spray hood or a dodger will help. Maybe this is why I see so many “stick boats” with a full cockpit tent. Motoring past me.
I should get a tent, I am rather envious.
After all my sailboat had a motor, so I suppose it’s really a “motor sailor”
So I guess it a choice between different “motor sailors” ones which are Motor boats which can be sailed or sailboats which can be motored.
The modern market appears to have chosen the latter while the former are dying out. And those who really want to motor in comfort by Nordhavens and don’t bother with sails.
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rotrax
Well-known member
A pretty accurate summing up.
We got a fellow club member who is also a very experienced delivery crew to assist with our new-to us- boat move from Gloucester Docks to Gosport. He gets gigs all over the world.
He was a bit sniffy when he first saw our big, fat and high boat with its huge pilothouse.
Rounding a rough Lands End in the pissing rain wearing his tropical gear of tee shirt, shorts and crocs he changed his tune.
He is now a fan of enclosed wheelhouses for cruising.
With the wind on the beam or behind, Jarrow Lily sails OK. When the wind wont serve, the iron jib works a treat!
We got a fellow club member who is also a very experienced delivery crew to assist with our new-to us- boat move from Gloucester Docks to Gosport. He gets gigs all over the world.
He was a bit sniffy when he first saw our big, fat and high boat with its huge pilothouse.
Rounding a rough Lands End in the pissing rain wearing his tropical gear of tee shirt, shorts and crocs he changed his tune.
He is now a fan of enclosed wheelhouses for cruising.
With the wind on the beam or behind, Jarrow Lily sails OK. When the wind wont serve, the iron jib works a treat!
NormanS
Well-known member
When we were looking to downsize from an elderly converted fishing boat, I was naturally keen on the look of the Fishers. We looked at a 37, and sorry but I was disappointed. I realized then that it wasn't a wheelhouse that I was looking for, but a deck saloon. With the best will in the world, you spend a lot of time at anchor, and it just seems so wrong to have the saloon down below, and not be able to see what's happening around you when at anchor.
We now have a Cromarty 36, interestingly enough designed by Wyatt and Freeman, the designers of the Fishers. She is a superb Deck Saloon Ketch, and while we always sail from outside, it's not unknown for us to motor from inside if the weather is nasty. For our purposes, we have the best of all worlds.
We now have a Cromarty 36, interestingly enough designed by Wyatt and Freeman, the designers of the Fishers. She is a superb Deck Saloon Ketch, and while we always sail from outside, it's not unknown for us to motor from inside if the weather is nasty. For our purposes, we have the best of all worlds.
alant
Active member
When changed from ketch to sloop, is the position of the mast step different?
E39mad
Well-known member
Yes from memory the mast is stepped further aft than that of the ketch.
E39mad
Well-known member
There are so many different internal layout versions of the F37 over the years. In the mid 1990's they went for more of a deck saloon version whereby the saloon below decks was smaller (standard version was also available).
WightMistress
Member
I just picked up on this thread some 8 years or so after it had been started (I was looking for something else and 'tripped over' this link.)
I do hope Dancrane did find his ideal Fisher. We own Wight Mistress, a 40 or so year old Fisher 34 ketch, and the way I describe her is that she does everything reasonably well and in a much increased level of comfort. When someone asks me how I handle sail I say 'I slip on a light cardigan and step out of the door, do what is needed and go back in side into the warm (or cool). Sailing close hauled is a 55 degree affair to be honest; anything less is tantamount to pinching and of course 'gentlemen don't sail to windward. Given that and a close/beam..broad reach in a decent puff (F4 (12-16) or F5(17-21) and with our good sails and a clean bottom and she will get to hull speed, which is about all you can ask for a classic sailing boat. I have to admit that the Bruntons Autoprop got rid of towing a 20 inch dustbin lid drogue of a prop, and 'Vera-the-Steerer' (our Hydrovane) makes a far more accurate
helmsman/woman/person than us - increasing the MLA (Mean Line of Advance) as well. Would I buy another Fisher if I had my time again? Definitely. Would I sell my Fisher? No. The only way you will get Wight Mistress is if you prise her out of my cold, dead fingers. A motor-sailer? No, a sailer-motor is a better description. Happy sailing. Steve
I do hope Dancrane did find his ideal Fisher. We own Wight Mistress, a 40 or so year old Fisher 34 ketch, and the way I describe her is that she does everything reasonably well and in a much increased level of comfort. When someone asks me how I handle sail I say 'I slip on a light cardigan and step out of the door, do what is needed and go back in side into the warm (or cool). Sailing close hauled is a 55 degree affair to be honest; anything less is tantamount to pinching and of course 'gentlemen don't sail to windward. Given that and a close/beam..broad reach in a decent puff (F4 (12-16) or F5(17-21) and with our good sails and a clean bottom and she will get to hull speed, which is about all you can ask for a classic sailing boat. I have to admit that the Bruntons Autoprop got rid of towing a 20 inch dustbin lid drogue of a prop, and 'Vera-the-Steerer' (our Hydrovane) makes a far more accurate
helmsman/woman/person than us - increasing the MLA (Mean Line of Advance) as well. Would I buy another Fisher if I had my time again? Definitely. Would I sell my Fisher? No. The only way you will get Wight Mistress is if you prise her out of my cold, dead fingers. A motor-sailer? No, a sailer-motor is a better description. Happy sailing. Steve
dancrane
Well-known member
For a while there, I thought your name was "WightMischief". Hmm, Greta Scacchi.
Still haven't bought a Fisher but they're still on my radar, thank you. Everything you say reminds me of why I like them.
Excellent point about the Brunton advantage. I bet very few owners of heavy old Fishers, bother to consider the standard propeller's effect on her pace when sailing...if she seems sluggish, well, that's what they expect, she's a Fisher. But it needn't be thus. :encouragement:
Still haven't bought a Fisher but they're still on my radar, thank you. Everything you say reminds me of why I like them.
Excellent point about the Brunton advantage. I bet very few owners of heavy old Fishers, bother to consider the standard propeller's effect on her pace when sailing...if she seems sluggish, well, that's what they expect, she's a Fisher. But it needn't be thus. :encouragement: