Fisher owners!! Please be honest...

Greenheart

Greenheart

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I love so much about Northshore's finest. Of course, it's very hard not to. I can easily forgive their sloth in calm conditions, because it's for such good reasons - their immense solidity and their disinclination to be thrown about. But...

...I really can't remember from my times aboard a F30 long ago, just how severely that big blunt wheelhouse diminishes each model's upwind ability. So, if you have one, would you care to tell, just what tacking angle you enjoy (or endure)?

Given my determination to use the motor as little as possible (in spite of the wind's amazing ability always to be blowing from wherever I want to go), I wonder if you can tell me either that the Fisher's stalwart characteristics make her rather flat tacking well worth putting up with, or (God forbid) that I ought to be looking elsewhere?

It's all academic at the moment, in fact...but a man can dream, and I do, day and night... :rolleyes:
 
dancrane said:
Given my determination to use the motor as little as possible
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Now that is a very admirable attitude, but surely, surely, a Fisher has got to be the boat least compatible with it.

It's not just the wheelhouse, it's the fat round hull, big prop, and stumpy rig too.

Fine boats for their intended purpose, but that purpose is not minimising use of the engine.

Pete
 
dancrane said:
I love so much about Northshore's finest. Of course, it's very hard not to. I can easily forgive their sloth in calm conditions, because it's for such good reasons - their immense solidity and their disinclination to be thrown about. But...

...I really can't remember from my times aboard a F30 long ago, just how severely that big blunt wheelhouse diminishes each model's upwind ability. So, if you have one, would you care to tell, just what tacking angle you enjoy (or endure)?

Given my determination to use the motor as little as possible (in spite of the wind's amazing ability always to be blowing from wherever I want to go), I wonder if you can tell me either that the Fisher's stalwart characteristics make her rather flat tacking well worth putting up with, or (God forbid) that I ought to be looking elsewhere?

It's all academic at the moment, in fact...but a man can dream, and I do, day and night... :rolleyes:
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Surely, any Gentleman refrains from sailing upwind!
 
and Colvic Watson (ex) owners too. :)

An apparent wind angle less that 40 is really quite unproductive, as is any wind of F2 and under. Outside those constraints, excellent gentle sailing with the surety that you will be sailing well past any time that a lesser boat will heading for the marina.


Decent sails do make a heck of a difference BTW, and going downwind the wheelhouse has a positive contribution to boat speed :D


Given the chance again, I would never hesitate to buy one.
 
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alant said:
Surely, any Gentleman refrains from sailing upwind!
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I think that really sums it up. The whole essence of a bluff motor sailer like a Fisher is that you motor up wind with sail assistance (for stability as much as for drive), and you only ever cut the motor off to go cross or downwind. Thats just how they work and with their nice wheelhouse its a recipe for getting exactly where you want to go in reasonable comfort regardless of the elements, in good time.

Whilst it may offend the very purest concept of 'sailing' it is actually a rather civilised way of navigating comfortably and safely from one place to another. It strikes me that Scotland is the perfect place to motor sail. You can even pretend to be Parahandy if you like as you look down on lesser mortals getting soaking wet and cold in their cockpits

Tim
 
Francis

I moved to a Fisher because I was in my 80s and found getting cold and wet - especially my glasses getting wet so that I had difficulty in seeing the compass - was becoming less appealing. I really cannot tell you what the angle my 25 will sail to the wind is.

Suggest that you post a similar request on the Fisher owners' web site. <www.fisherowners.org.uk>

Francis Rutter
 
Thank you, gentlemen - I can see that's exactly what all of you are, and I hope to be accepted in your ranks. Alant...you're a rogue to bring up the "gents don't go to windward" line...:D...it reminds me of the fashion designer whose absurdly expensive raincoat proved not to be waterproof...and he remarked, "Well, it doesn't rain, on the rich".

Let us be honest for a moment...there are surely hours on any cruise, long or short, when a Fisher or other WHMS (may I coin the abbreviation, for Wheel House Motor Sailer? As opposed to the many yachts that look as if they should have an interior helm, but are in fact set up inside like a Soho penthouse, but with an autohelm beside the cocktail cabinet) when the beam reach is becoming a close reach, and performance is suffering.

I'm just curious about when that point is 'reached'...I mean, will she sail due south across the Channel against the prevailent south-westerlies? Or must she aim further east, to make it without tacking? I don't object to tacking, but less is definitely more.

And, I ask your pardon in advance, for dreaming of modifications to Northshore's standard sailplans, but in truth, does it never occur to Fisher owners that the snugness of a rig which doesn't need reefing in a force six, inevitably means a sad dulling of performance in anything less than about fifteen knots of wind? Is there no way to have both sides...a bigger rig, with serious reefing gear that doesn't hobble the sails when in use?

I'm naive enough to imagine that it can be done, but that it just hasn't been, yet. I believe we're apt to make our choices from what's available, and assume that's as good as it gets. Most of us know two or three design points we'd change aboard our boats, given time and know-how.

Nothing will dissuade me from wanting a Fisher; the form and solidity are much more attractive than an X-Yacht's comfortless efficiency. But your honest thoughts about the Fisher's abilities, may set me dreaming more rationally.

Thanks, anyway. :)
 
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Alfie168 said:
I think that really sums it up. The whole essence of a bluff motor sailer like a Fisher is that you motor up wind with sail assistance (for stability as much as for drive), and you only ever cut the motor off to go cross or downwind.
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It's more than just Fishers, Tim. I sail a Starlight which is a really excellnt performer ( for a cruiser) under sail but I still find that if I am passage making I spend a good 50% of my time with the donkey on. The wind is often withing 10 degrees of where I want to go so motorsailing is much quicker than tacking. The wind is often F2 or lower in which case motorsailing is the only way.

If you think about it, passage making under sail is only really good isf the wind is between f3 and f5 ( to windward, f6 downwind) and more than 40 degrees off your destination. Thats a surprisingly infrequent situation.
 
wotayottie said:
It's more than just Fishers, Tim. I sail a Starlight which is a really excellnt performer ( for a cruiser) under sail but I still find that if I am passage making I spend a good 50% of my time with the donkey on. The wind is often withing 10 degrees of where I want to go so motorsailing is much quicker than tacking. The wind is often F2 or lower in which case motorsailing is the only way.

If you think about it, passage making under sail is only really good isf the wind is between f3 and f5 ( to windward, f6 downwind) and more than 40 degrees off your destination. Thats a surprisingly infrequent situation.
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Very true, but you are not supposed to admit it:D

Tim
 
How long IS that piece of string??

Interesting. But if I compromise my love of pure sailing, by occasionally allowing myself the assistance of the engine (I'm still thinking in terms of the Wheel House Motor Sailer), how much of the average engine's thrust is required to make motor-sailing practical?

I'm guessing that even a rather low-aspect rig like the smaller Fisher ketches, will point much higher with the prop turning. But...the smaller the percentage of upwind progress that is owed to the rig, the less purpose there is in carrying any sail, until ultimately it'd be more efficient to point exactly where you're going, under engine alone.

Granted, I seem to be the last to learn this obvious lesson, but I'm wondering whether, turning at not much more than idle-speed, the engine can turn the Fisher's upwind performance from poor to acceptable, in terms of journeying...and whether at these low revs, (luckily, I'm almost never in a hurry!) she can be sailed something like an AWB.

A simple question: with only 25% revs from the diesel, will your Wheel House Motor Sailer make useful progress while beating, against a force three, and tack through less than 100 degrees?

Even if the frank answer is 'no', I still want one; I just have a lot more thinking to do! Please feel free to enter the % of revs you normally use, to supplement the rig, and the tacking angle you expect as a result. Thanks.
 
dancrane said:
Thank you, gentlemen - I can see that's exactly what all of you are, and I hope to be accepted in your ranks. Pete...you're a rogue to bring up the "gents don't go to windward" line...:D...it reminds me of the fashion designer whose absurdly expensive raincoat proved not to be waterproof...and he remarked, "Well, it doesn't rain, on the rich".

Let us be honest for a moment...there are surely hours on any cruise, long or short, when a Fisher or other WHMS (may I coin the abbreviation, for Wheel House Motor Sailer? As opposed to the many yachts that look as if they should have an interior helm, but are in fact set up inside like a Soho penthouse, but with an autohelm beside the cocktail cabinet) when the beam reach is becoming a close reach, and performance is suffering.

I'm just curious about when that point is 'reached'...I mean, will she sail due south across the Channel against the prevailent south-westerlies? Or must she aim further east, to make it without tacking? I don't object to tacking, but less is definitely more.

And, I ask your pardon in advance, for dreaming of modifications to Northshore's standard sailplans, but in truth, does it never occur to Fisher owners that the snugness of a rig which doesn't need reefing in a force six, inevitably means a sad dulling of performance in anything less than about fifteen knots of wind? Is there no way to have both sides...a bigger rig, with serious reefing gear that doesn't hobble the sails when in use?

I'm naive enough to imagine that it can be done, but that it just hasn't been, yet. I believe we're apt to make our choices from what's available, and assume that's as good as it gets. Most of us know two or three design points we'd change aboard our boats, given time and know-how.

Nothing will dissuade me from wanting a Fisher; the form and solidity are much more attractive than an X-Yacht's comfortless efficiency. But your honest thoughts about the Fisher's abilities, may set me dreaming more rationally.

Thanks, anyway. :)
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"I mean, will she sail due south across the Channel against the prevailent south-westerlies? Or must she aim further east, to make it without tacking?"

Aim further East? :confused:
 
AlanT's quote: Aim further East?

- Was my query not clear?

I meant, suppose I'm sailing due south, 180, from below the Isle of Wight, towards Cherbourg, and the wind's from the WSW, let's say 240 degrees...

...well, will a boat like the Fisher happily hammer along that course, or must I steer something like 160 (ie, south, but with a bit of EAST in it) in order for the boat not to stall?

Apologies, I thought the question was obvious. :o

Still curious about the answer! :D
 
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dancrane said:
AlanT's quote: Aim further East?

- Was my query not clear?

I meant, suppose I'm sailing due south, 180, from below the Isle of Wight, towards Cherbourg, and the wind's from the WSW, let's say 240 degrees...

...well, will a boat like the Fisher happily hammer along that course, or must I steer something like 160 (ie, south, but with a bit of EAST in it) in order for the boat not to stall?

Apologies, I thought the question was obvious. :o

Still curious about the answer! :D
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Would have thought, that in a blow decent enough to actually sail a Fisher, leeway, with that shaped bottom, must be about 45deg! :D
 
Alan, I can't wait to hear the angry responses to that!! :D

Of course, if there aren't any responses, I'll shut up and start looking for a different boat. You're not a fan, I take it?
 
Yes indeed, Twister Ken, watch this space! I'm thinking about developing an amphibious hydrofoil with a nitrous-oxide opposing-kickback delimited drain-chain conversion. And if I can just get my hands on a nearly-new flux-capacitor...

Seriously, the tamed FD is a real possibility, given the availability of a cheap oldie to renovate, and a shed which is long enough to store/restore it in. The Fisher, as I said as I opened the thread, is largely a dream, that I'll strive to bring to life, if owners of them can persuade me that these boats are not dead in the water without the engine. :)
 
Twister_Ken said:
Dan - a souped-down Flying Dutchman cruising dinghy last week. A souped up Fisher this. What next
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Before that it was a Westerly gaff schooner and various other things. See the last paragraph here.

Not that I mean to discourage Dan - his unorthodox ideas are invariably interesting and amusing, and I look forward to his posts.

Pete
 
Cheers, Pete - though there's not much danger of my ever being discouraged! :D

Did I really plan the Frankenschooner rig upon a Westerly hull? You may be right, I found an old Chieftain for sale, which I thought might suit the mast positions. Got me thinking about it again, now... :)
 
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