First time at sea, advice please

[nortada]

But you said "On a broader front, I would not go to sea with a single means of propulsion - too much can go wrong "



So do you fill one tank from one marina and the other from a different source, then fill the day tank from somewhere else ?

I think not.

My engines also run in isolation, but i fill them up at the same time. A contaminated supply would affect both tanks. Given the fact that a day tank would be filled from the same supply, that would be affected too.

My last but one boat was a 28ft single engined motorboat, fitted with a 200hp inboard diesel. What sort of aux engine would be needed to push that along and where would you store the petrol to run it ?

With respect, you might want to rethink the statement "On a broader front, I would not go to sea with a single means of propulsion - too much can go wrong "

On a previous single engined 22 ft boat I fitted a 20hp out board that pushed it along well and gave me the confidence to poodle around the Wash - not the friendliest bit of water. Only used it once in anger. Had I not had it, it would have been an unscheduled trip towards Wells Next The Sea.

With respect, why would I want to rethink my statement

 

[nortada]

Think we will just have to agree to disagree.

Folk can do their own risk assessment and decide what is acceptable for them.

At sea, on your own, with a single engine as the only means of propulsion, don’t do much for me.

At least the OP has a spectrum of opinions and ideas and is more aware of the potential risks and remedies.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Think we will just have to agree to disagree.

Folk can do their own risk assessment and decide what is acceptable for them.

At sea, on your own, with a single engine as the only means of propulsion, don’t do much for me.

At least the OP has a spectrum of opinions and ideas and is more aware of the potential risks and remedies.

Still don't get it, do you.

You're at sea, with a single source of fuel, but that's ok ?

Making sure he doesn't break down due to dirt in the fual tank has already been covered.

My guess is, the OP has worked out what's what.

 

[snowbird30ds]

I have to admit the only time I've had issues with crud in fuel from what I'd picked up was rust flakes and only one engine gave up (separate tanks) so not a huge issue, well it wasn't till the steering arm broke on the other side... ? , I've suffered from sludge that's formed inside the tanks over time from previous ownership before but that has affected one side at a time and been very glad of having two engines with independent tanks, the other side wasn't great but at least it kept going.
I'm now a marine 16 addict since fitting new tanks which has worked ok so far and good doses just before each lockdown has served me well (so far).

 

[PeterWright]

My current boat has twin engines, a dose of diesel bug in the next fill up will render them both dead. What sort of aux engine would you suggest for a 20 ton, 45ft motorboat ?

Hi Paul,

A Napier Sabre H24 might just do the job, but you would need an aviation spirit tank big enough to keep up with the 250 gal/hour consumption at full power. The up side is that it is always described as being a light weight engine at just over a ton, which is light for 3,500 hp.

Peter.

 

[nortada]

Still don't get it, do you.

You're at sea, with a single source of fuel, but that's ok ?

Making sure he doesn't break down due to dirt in the fual tank has already been covered.

My guess is, the OP has worked out what's what.

Why the insults Do we all have to fall into line with your views and opinionsSorry life ain’t like that.?

How did you work out I go to sea with a single source of fuel As happens I could rig a 16HP outboard as a get-you- home option. Slow as I would only get about 4/5 knots max but it would work.

In the past, used this method (4HP outboard) to push a 38ft Dufour in a busy seaway against about a knot of tide, when the main 20/40 Volvo wouldn’t start - worked well all the way into the berth.

As to not getting it, don’t understand but if the OP has worked out what is what then this thread has served it’s purpose.??

 

[snowbird30ds]

So back on the original subject...
Do you have a chartplotter on the boat? And how up to date? Not that up to date means much around the east coast as a bit of an easterly blow and it changes.
Sticking to the marked channels is the best approach north and south of both grot yarmouth and lowestoft, some go a good way closer in but had a depth sounder making laughing sounds at me before and headed straight back out to deeper water, Tillergirl's wonderful NTM weekly reports are very useful as are copies of both 'east coast pilot' and 'crossing the thames estuary' (even if just to support the best suppliers of east coast info).
Before you know it you'll be popping round to wells or down to southwold.

 

[valerian]

So back on the original subject...
Do you have a chartplotter on the boat? And how up to date?

Yes, I have a memory map subscription (based on admiral charts I think ) on at least 3 different devices (2 tablets and a mobile). Am playing with OpenPlotter at the moment as a backup/alternative system. But these are really just for situational awareness to begin with as I would not venture out of sight of the harbour entrance to begin with, until I became more familiar with being at sea. I also have a depth gauge, as yet untested in waters in excess of about 25 feet but seems reliable enough in the rivers. So yes, marked channels and the depth gauge would be my principal nav aids to begin with.

In view of all the (justified) remarks concerning single engine issues, does anyone have experience or opinions of the RYA Diesel Engine course?

 

[Greg2]

I am a bit late to this but thought I would chuck my tuppence worth in.

Our first sea trip was between Lowestoft and Gt. Yarmouth in our Princess 32 many moons ago, which we did in company with experienced friends in their mobo. It is a good first trip at around 7nm and staying at the Royal Norfolk and Suffolk Yacht Club in Lowestoft, which is close to the harbour entrance, enabled us to observe sea conditions before we departed.

Not sure where the OP moors their boat but a good weekend trip is the circuit between the two ports and a Broads base with an overnight in RNSYC. For a first trip perhaps departing from Lowestoft is better as you can see what the sea state is and decide whether to go or to book a lock back in.

Lowestoft harbour entrance manages to be a little disturbed even when the sea is calm but it is short lived. There are sandbanks nearly opposite the entrance and to the south but if heading north it is a clear run if you stick approx half a mile off the coast.

Haven bridge at Gt Yarmouth isn’t operational at the moment and can’t lift so state of tide and air draft will be a consideration.
.

 

[snowbird30ds]

Does memory map need to be online to display maps or download? I use memory map but the old version with the old dodgy mapping.
For an android tablet visitmyharbour.com is worth joining for their android charts at less than a tenner and you get the second years update for free, runs on an app called marine navigator.
My first trip out to sea was out in the wash and we did lose visibility due to drizzle so don't bank on always being able to see where you're going, mist and fog can occur without notice at sea, the chartplotter with a planned route was worth it's weight in gold.
Remember a passage plan is a legal obligation, notes on tides and times is always good as is keeping a regular log of position/heading/speed so when all the gadgets go wrong or flat you can work out roughly where you are the old way.

 

[valerian]

Does memory map need to be online to display maps or download? I use memory map but the old version with the old dodgy mapping.

No it has downloadable offline maps. I also looked at visitmyharbour.com and the Marine Navigator, found the site very confusing , seems very amateur, but I will probably have a look at the MN app and charts. Pre-planned route on a chartplotter was always a given, even if just a there-and-back route I could rejoin at any point if necessary.

 

[nortada]

Does memory map need to be online to display maps or download? I use memory map but the old version with the old dodgy mapping.
For an android tablet visitmyharbour.com is worth joining for their android charts at less than a tenner and you get the second years update for free, runs on an app called marine navigator.
My first trip out to sea was out in the wash and we did lose visibility due to drizzle so don't bank on always being able to see where you're going, mist and fog can occur without notice at sea, the chartplotter with a planned route was worth it's weight in gold.
Remember a passage plan is a legal obligation, notes on tides and times is always good as is keeping a regular log of position/heading/speed so when all the gadgets go wrong or flat you can work out roughly where you are the old way.

Don’t dispute having a passage plan but where is it stated it is a legal obligation?

Is it required in all tidal waters or just for passages over a certain length and distance off shore?

I must admit I don’t do one for fiddling around in the Walton Backwaters or while in Harwich Bay - transiting between the 3 rivers.

Does anybody?

 

[tillergirl]

SOLAS V for pleasure craft - Voyage Planning requirements

“Regulation V/34 - Safe Navigation and avoidance of dangerous situations” concerns prior planning for your boating trip, more commonly known as voyage or passage planning. Voyage planning is basically common sense. As a pleasure boat user, you should particularly take into account the following points when planning a boating trip.

Weather: before you go boating, check the weather forecast and get regular updates if you are planning to be out for any length of time.
Tides: check the tidal predictions for your trip and ensure that they fit with what you are planning to do.
Limitations of the vessel: consider whether your boat is up to the proposed trip and that you have sufficient safety equipment and stores with you.
Crew: take into account the experience and physical ability of your crew. Crews suffering from cold, tiredness and seasickness won’t be able to do their job properly and could even result in an overburdened skipper.
Navigational dangers: make sure you are familiar with any navigational dangers you may encounter during your boating trip. This generally means checking an up to date chart and a current pilot book or almanac.
Contingency plan: always have a contingency plan should anything go wrong. Before you go, consider bolt holes and places where you can take refuge should conditions deteriorate or if you suffer an incident or injury. Bear in mind that your GPS set is vulnerable and could fail at the most inconvenient time. It is sensible and good practice to make sure you are not over-reliant on your GPS set and that you can navigate yourself to safety without it should it fail you.”

SOLAS is a Covention we have signed, ergo, it is law. It is applicable to open waters. We have debated about this before; Walton Backwater probably not, transiting between 3 rivers - probably. Certainly outside Lowestoft or GY. Should it be written down? Ah. Good question. Is it a good idea? Yeap. We have been discussing the advice for the OP. I think we raised everything except the crew?

Can I say summat for the crew. Having now experienced a motor boat as well as a sailing boat, can I suggest a prepared flask of tea/coffee or whatever is good. On Monday when the thunderstorm descended, I declined making tea because a mobo's motion - whilst fine sitting in a nice seat - is bl**dy 'orrible to adding boiling water into cups. Sailing boat with a nice galley fine; the motion is much nicer than a mobo in a seaway -jerky, unpredicatable etc. As I said, fine doing what you do in a mobo, but galley work is not nearly as easy! I know this sounds like the expedition to the North Pole but a bit of prep is good.

 

[nortada]

SOLAS V for pleasure craft - Voyage Planning requirements

“Regulation V/34 - Safe Navigation and avoidance of dangerous situations” concerns prior planning for your boating trip, more commonly known as voyage or passage planning. Voyage planning is basically common sense. As a pleasure boat user, you should particularly take into account the following points when planning a boating trip.

Weather: before you go boating, check the weather forecast and get regular updates if you are planning to be out for any length of time.
Tides: check the tidal predictions for your trip and ensure that they fit with what you are planning to do.
Limitations of the vessel: consider whether your boat is up to the proposed trip and that you have sufficient safety equipment and stores with you.
Crew: take into account the experience and physical ability of your crew. Crews suffering from cold, tiredness and seasickness won’t be able to do their job properly and could even result in an overburdened skipper.
Navigational dangers: make sure you are familiar with any navigational dangers you may encounter during your boating trip. This generally means checking an up to date chart and a current pilot book or almanac.
Contingency plan: always have a contingency plan should anything go wrong. Before you go, consider bolt holes and places where you can take refuge should conditions deteriorate or if you suffer an incident or injury. Bear in mind that your GPS set is vulnerable and could fail at the most inconvenient time. It is sensible and good practice to make sure you are not over-reliant on your GPS set and that you can navigate yourself to safety without it should it fail you.”

SOLAS is a Covention we have signed, ergo, it is law. It is applicable to open waters. We have debated about this before; Walton Backwater probably not, transiting between 3 rivers - probably. Certainly outside Lowestoft or GY. Should it be written down? Ah. Good question. Is it a good idea? Yeap. We have been discussing the advice for the OP. I think we raised everything except the crew?

Can I say summat for the crew. Having now experienced a motor boat as well as a sailing boat, can I suggest a prepared flask of tea/coffee or whatever is good. On Monday when the thunderstorm descended, I declined making tea because a mobo's motion - whilst fine sitting in a nice seat - is bl**dy 'orrible to adding boiling water into cups. Sailing boat with a nice galley fine; the motion is much nicer than a mobo in a seaway -jerky, unpredicatable etc. As I said, fine doing what you do in a mobo, but galley work is not nearly as easy! I know this sounds like the expedition to the North Pole but a bit of prep is good.

Whilst, I agree and applaud your sound advice, a convention is not law.

0K I am being pedantic.

I quote, “The difference between a convention and a law is that laws are enforced by courts, with legal sanctions following their breach, whilst conventions are enforced only by political pressure.”

 

[kwb78]

Whilst, I agree and applaud your sound advice, a convention is not law.

SOLAS V is incorporated into UK law, currently under The Merchant Shipping (Safety of Navigation) Regulations. It is very much enforceable by the courts.

 

[Greg2]

Don’t dispute having a passage plan but where is it stated it is a legal obligation?

Is it required in all tidal waters or just for passages over a certain length and distance off shore?

I must admit I don’t do one for fiddling around in the Walton Backwaters or while in Harwich Bay - transiting between the 3 rivers.

Does anybody?

Regulation 34 of SOLAS made passage plans a legal requirement some years ago. Some intro on the RYA website here - scroll down to the relevant bit.

The MCA Guidance Notes for this regulation state: For small vessels and pleasure-craft the degree of voyage planning will be depend upon the size of vessel, its crew and the length of the voyage. The MCA expects all mariners to make a careful assessment of any proposed voyage taking into account all dangers to navigation, weather forecasts, tidal predictions and other relevant factors including the competence of the crew.

I recall reading that for short coastal trips a note of tides and weather forecast might be acceptable as a minimum. Something in writing is always good come an inquiry!

I tend to put an outline plan in the log.

Edit: Hadn’t seen the posts after nortada’s #52 post for some reason - copied from the RYA site:

RYA Note: Skippers should note that this regulation changes the status of passage planning on small boats from simply good practice to a requirement under UK law for vessels proceeding to sea (proceeding outside of 'categorised waters' see MSN 1837).

.

 

[tillergirl]

Whilst, I agree and applaud your sound advice, a convention is not law.

0K I am being pedantic.

I quote, “The difference between a convention and a law is that laws are enforced by courts, with legal sanctions following their breach, whilst conventions are enforced only by political pressure.”

Have a look at a few of the International Organised Crime Conventions.

The objective of Solas is to encourage people to think prudently first and foremost.

 

[Capt Popeye]

Humm might ask , does it mention a Radio Watch to be kept at all ?