First time across

[Sniper]

Afternoon all,
I'd very much welcome some advice here. I'm hoping to make my first channel crossing next year but I'm not sure which route to choose. The boat is based on the Orwell, so I have a range of options. My initial thoughts are to coast hop down to Ramsgate and then cross from there, perhaps to Dunkirk. However, although this would involve a relatively short distance for the actual crossing it does mean crossing the traffic seperation at a bottleneck.

What would people recommend? Although I've not taken my boat across I've been sailing for most of my life - mostly coastal, so little offshore experience. I've done the YM theory though, so I should have some idea of that. Boat is a Twister, so no problems there. Crew would be three fit(tish) blokes with a similar range of experience to mine (for which read a crowd of paunchy beer-swilling middle aged slobs)

Any views would be very welcome, as would any recommendations for further research/reading.

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[tcm]

Re: hmm, a twister

I would just go a little way out, and then come back again. That seems the recommended thing to do with a Twister!

Seriously, a good idea to find a person (and some around here) who have done it before and takem along.

Failing that, go in daylight, from Ramsgate is fine, and to Calais is pretty easy. From the air, you can see that the ships in the TSS tend to bunch together (perhaps they are mates and swap videos?) so there are large gaps. Get one or more of the beer-swilling slobs to take bearings on any ship he sees. Don't be at all averse to orbiting (going round in a circle) to let a ship definitely go past ahead as the sneaking in front is a bit worrisome. Also, it is much cheaper to swill wine in France.

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[vyv_cox]

We have crossed many times Ramsgate to Dunkerque and traffic density is essentially little different wherever you cross. We always head straight out of Ramsgate along the buoyed channel, as this gives a good idea of the strength of the cross-tide. It is very easy to make a mistake over this. Once well out, head to pass NE of the Goodwins, cross the TSS and make for roughly Sandettie lightship. You are then in shallow water where nothing, except possibly the Sea Cat, will be a threat until you reach the buoyed Dunkerque channel.

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[dickh]

The easiest way from the Orwell if it's your first trip is to go to Ramsgate, go all round the sandbanks, don't bother to try and sneak between them as you'll find all the shallow patches, should take about 8 to 10 hours if you plan the tides right and there is a reasonable wind. Recover in Ramsgate overnight and them across to Calais - much nicer than Dunkirk which is a dump. About 6 hours to Calais, but watch the ferries going in and out. Keep a good lookout whilst crossing the TSS, the coastguard apparently track you on radar to make sure your crossing at right angles. As said by others, always go round the stern of ships. Sometimes there are lots of them, other times you hardly see any. Make sure you have all the corect paperwork for France, apparently they often board you and demand to see all your documents etc. (but never happened to me yet).
Good luck.

<hr width=100% size=1>dickh
I'd rather be sailing... /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[chas]

I do not think you will have any problem, but I would suggest that you make sure that your landfall is in daylight with enough left to find your destination!

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[ianwright]

Orwell-Ramsgate-Dunkirk? Why? You are leaving one nice place to go to two dumps, and you end up in France. No, forget it. Go to Holland. In at Flushing, the Roompot or Stellendam. 24 hours, less if you are lucky and when you get there the people will like you. Then you have all of Zeeland to play in.
Really, go to Holland.

IanW

<hr width=100% size=1>Vertue 203, Patience

 

[sailorman]

Landguard port
medusa stbd
long sand hd stbd
south galloper port
Oostende .
then up to Vlissingen
by the time you have got to Ramsgate ( dump) u could be at West Hinder then perhaps another 4 Hrs into Oostende


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[Koeketiene]

I second that!

Ostend is well worth it - a truly underappreciated run ashore.
Access in nearly all winds/tides. Strong NW can be a bit hairy.
Booz & fages are same price/cheaper then France.
Food's better & cheaper. Great atmosphere.
Brits are made to feel very welcome.

Flushing's also nice - but since it's your first crossing... if're you're aprehensive about crossing the TSS, I would leave Flushing for another time. The river Scheldt can be like the M25 at rush hour.

<hr width=100% size=1>Fair winds.
If not... reef early!

 

[Neil_M]

Did similar trip this year, also for first time.

Went Deben/Orwell to Ramsgate (via Foulgers Gat)
Ramsgate to Boulogne
Boulogne down to St Valery sur Somme (great place)

Drop me a PM for more info, happy to share passage plans, pilotage notes, experiences, etc.



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[AndrewB]

Passage plan ideas from Ramsgate.

The tides are strong, and must be taken into account in planning this passage. Also, Calais marina can only be entered /- 1 hr 45mins of HW (varies a bit according to tide height).

Ramsgate - > Calais: leave Ramsgate at Dover HW 3, east round Goodwin Knoll and then south until you reach the TSS. Then straight across arriving at Calais a little before HW. Or with a fast-ish yacht, leave Ramsgate at Dover HW-3, south through the inshore Ramsgate channel to South Goodwin LS then across to Calais arriving just before final lock opening.

Keep to the west of Calais CA8 buoy as you approach to avoid the shallowest area of the Ridens. You MUST call Calais Radio (VHF12 from memory) before attempting to enter Calais harbour. Keep right over on the right hand side as you enter. If the marina lock is shut, there are waiting buoys outside, but at low water you may well be in the mud (very soft).

Ramsgate - > Dunkerque, I'd leave around Dover HW-5, go around Goodwin Knoll as before and south to East Goodwin LS. Then across to Rutingen SW buoy arriving as the tide turns, and take the ebb up the Dunkerque channel, keeping just outside the buoyed channel either N or S. Yachts may not enter Dunkerque West harbour. At Dunkerque East you may not get a VHF response, but you can enter if the lights are in your favour (Green-Green-White), do not enter otherwise. Keep to the left inside, the further right-hand 'North Sea Club' marina is more convenient for the town, but expect to have to raft.

Do not attempt a straight-line route between Ramsgate and Dunkerque in strong winds as it can be very rough on the Sandettie Bank and the outer banks to the north of Dunkerque.

Crossing the TSS at the 'bottleneck' as I suggest minimises time spent in the TSS - which most yachtsmen prefer. Remember to cross roughly at right angles. On the first lane, you, the crossing vessel, have right of way: some ships will give it, a few don't. So take care not to give way to a ship that has already turned behind you, and when you do give way, turn at least 90deg to starboard. On the far lane the ships in the TSS will all assume right of way even if you are sailing, so simply give way (stop or turn) at a sensible distance. Don't worry about the crossing ferries which will keep out your way, except of course at Calais entrance. For a first crossing, go by day with at least 5 miles visibility.

If going to Dunkerque, don't be confused by all the anchored ships near Dyke buoy, just outside the TSS. With a strong tide they look to be moving, but they aren't!

You should not attempt to cross the TSS unless you are able to sustain at least 4 knots. Should you have engine problems and there is not enough wind, call Dover CG at once.

Good luck.

 

[vyv_cox]

<Calais - much nicer than Dunkirk which is a dump> Must be a different Dunkerque. It's not at all a bad place if you walk up into the town. There's been lots of redevelopment, good shops, the inner harbour is now very attractive. Good yacht services, too, none at Calais.

Whereas Calais is so obsessed with providing UK visitors with cheap booze, fast food and hire cars that there is very little to tempt the yachtsman. Neither could be called beautiful but I know which I prefer.

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[heerenleed]

Agreed!

We used not to like Dunkirk very much. But as a stepping stone fur us (and many others from the Netherlands) to the Channel destinations one does not easily miss it.

Indeed, a lot of redevelopment has been don, but also, we discovered Malo-les-Bains a long time ago, the seaside resort next to Dunkirk. Go into the first marina (port side) you see (Grand Large). Always plenty of room. They will borrow you bikes for your shopping, and since last year there is a free mini-bus service from the marina to the Malo boulevard. It would be a 15 min walk. The boulevard is not overdeveloped as in Belgium, lookes more rural, and plenty of non-expensive food along the boulevard. Try that in Calais. Now that's a real dump.


<hr width=100% size=1>Peter a/b SV Heerenleed, Steenbergen, Netherlands

 

[heerenleed]

Mind the tides for Dunkirk

We have done the crossing from Harwich to Calais in one day. Quite feasable if the tides are right, but from there on to Dunkirk is impossible in one go, as the tide will be running hard against you once you get into the buoyed channel to Dunkirk. It is quite narrow, no prob for shipping, it's more than wide enough for that, but the strong tides are funneled through and your progress would become way to slow. So, if you choose not to stop in Ramsgate, Calais it must be.

It is all rather straight-forward really. I would recommend the North Sea Passage Pilot though (I think this is the title, have'nt got it here to check) , which gives excellent passage plans. We have used them often only to find the tides have been very well used. Just don't be put off by the over-cautious advices that any pilot is bound to give.

Don't try it is the visibility is other than good, as it will make you over-nervous when crossing the TSS, and sailing should be fun.

It is not as hair-raising as you think, as you will find out.
From Dunkirk on to Ostend (skip Nieuwpoort, facilities good but too far from the town) Do take the latest version of a large scale "Vlaamse Banken" chart, the coastal area between Dunkirk and Ostend, because you have to use the Zuydcoote Pass, crossing a sandbank on its deepest spot, which shifts permanently. It is well buoyed but as the buoys are far apart they may confuse without the proper chart. Do this arrea in good vis as well. Normally there are plenty of other yachts so you will have a clue soon after starting.

From Ostend on to the Netherlands, surely, to enjoy some stressless sailing in relatively sheltered waters with weak tides (except the river Schelde which has strong tides. If you are reluctant to cross the Schelde straight away, go into Breskens on the S-bank first. From there, you have a magnificent view on Vlissingen, and you can also study the big ship movements, which are not complicated once you see which channels they use.

If you wish to go into Zeeland, drop me a PM for any info. I'm based in that area so know it well.

happy sailing

<hr width=100% size=1>Peter a/b SV Heerenleed, Steenbergen, Netherlands

 

[sailorman]

Re: Mind the tides for Dunkirk

Hi peter
we met u 3 yrs ago in Steenbergen "Jolie Brise" friend of Ray & Teresa "Charasma"
( your previous yacht).
Steenbergen is a vey nice town missed by most Brits as they go straigh passed to Williemstadt, their loss!.


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[Mudplugger]

Re: Mind the tides for Dunkirk

Horatio...... I'll third the options put forward by Ian, a Twister with 3 slobby crew will have no problem going direct to Ostend. approx 135 deg. from L.Sand head. and the trip is long enough not to have to worry unduly about the effects of the tides.( tend to cancel each other out) Annual Jolly from B'sea includes Leisure 23, and a couple of other 23/24 footers, most do the trip in about 15/17 hours, and thats including the extra distance from the colne. No real nasties to worry about, navigationaly speaking until you close the coast on the other side, then everything is well marked..... By the time you get to Ramsgate, you would be in Ostend!!!. have a great trip. (Duty free a LOT cheaper in Belgium than France)

<hr width=100% size=1>Tony W.

 

[PeterGibbs]

If you reckon Ramsgate is within your comfort zone, then Dunkirk is an easy and shorter ride onwards from there. Why stress yourself? Go the easy way - Black Deep, across Fisherman's Gat and hey presto - best to leave with an hour or two of ebb so you get all the flood to Ramsgate.

Shipping lanes are straight forward providing you have reasonable vis; if poor, I would hang back on the first trip. Tip -slow down if you think you have a close quarters situation with a passing ship - out there they often move pretty fast, and can be on you before you know it.

You might, with a favourable breeze, drift straight back in daylight - it's always easier to make the direct journey back to UK since on making landfall you know your way around eg the Sunk, shipping lanes etc.

Good sailing

Fellow Orweller

PWG

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[heerenleed]

Re: Mind the tides for Dunkirk

We did indeed!
Though, our recollections of that year are very vague only. We were either working hard to get the boat in shape or getting drunk over yet another achievement. I'm sure Teresa can fill you in on every detail.....

Do come again and see how the boat changed. She's got new sails, new decks, a lot of less visible maintenance done and has now the same colour as Ray and Teresa's Nic35.

Also, we could tell you about some more secret spots in our area which may be worthwile if you want to stay out of the tourist traps.

cheers & fair winds

<hr width=100% size=1>Peter a/b SV Heerenleed, Steenbergen, Netherlands

 

[Sniper]

Thanks to all for your helpful responses. I must admit the direct route across to Ostend is now sounding quite appealing, but I suppose I could always try a variety (on different occasions of course!)

Tim

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[sailorman]

thats my boy
go for it
we use to race across & GK 24s & similar were common, we had a 26 footer,depth, log,vhf (but not to begin with vhf that is).
just check the entry signals & moor-up in the Montgomery Dock.
i also belive "Stores" are still available

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[DanTribe]

I agree, Ostend Montgomery is great for the "buzz". It's next to the bars, restaurants & shops & the North Sea Yacht Club must be one of the best. It can get very busy especially if the racers are in. I went in once when it was wall to wall, the unflappable HM told us to go in the far corner. When we pointed out that there was no space he said " Well, make one then". It can be noisy & there is often a surge of water as the ferries leave.
For a quieter visit consider the Air Force Yacht Club in Nieupoort. There's less commercial traffic than Ostend so you are unlikely to have to wait offshore for ferries.The club is v. friendly [if you don't try to speak French]. Yes it's out of town but you can hire a bike or use the excellent coast trams.

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