First sailboat

[andylipsberg]

Based on your personal experience getting onboard what would you recommend as a first sailboat. My personal requirements are comfort and enough space for weekend/week journeys. Which means of course the amenities and headroom 1.90. Secondly it’s a used boat in the range of 31ft - 37ft

Personally I don’t like the recommendation to try out different boats, first of all it's impossible to see and try out all the models I would like to, also chartering considering covid would take years for trying out different boats.

Secondly I don’t like the recommendation that sailboats start above 40ft, as I have limited sailing experience I don’t want to go beyond the budget and sailing capabilities especially considering that I expect to single hand when possible.

After extensive reading and research in the market I personally consider 37ft (10 year old) would be the sweetest spot in terms of budget, comfort, sailboat speed and easy to single hand.

I have few sailboats in mind without mentioning particular brands, they are all from mass production boats.

What would you recommend, shall I stick to 31ft range as the sailing area would be Baltic Sea and bay and I don’t think I would get close to North Sea or ocean in next 2 years time.

 

[Caraway]

Welcome.
I don't any expertise in the size range you are looking at. I can tell you that people will tell you it is not a 'sailboat'
I have been told that a few times. Apparently it makes a difference

 

[lustyd]

Find some boats within budget and where you want them and check those ones out. When you love one, buy it. Leave 1/3 of your budget for refit and expenses because very few people sell boats in the condition we wish to buy them. If you're already at mid 30' length then 40 wouldn't make a huge difference, if you wanted easy then 25 would be better as you can manhandle it and it won't break the things it hits.

 

[andylipsberg]

Find some boats within budget and where you want them and check those ones out. When you love one, buy it. Leave 1/3 of your budget for refit and expenses because very few people sell boats in the condition we wish to buy them. If you're already at mid 30' length then 40 wouldn't make a huge difference, if you wanted easy then 25 would be better as you can manhandle it and it won't break the things it hits.

yes, that's the idea. most of the boats are outside the country, so it means travelling either to Sweden, Finland or even further in Europe. locally we don't have offer at all, at least it's totally not attractive.

 

[[70521]]

Welcome to the forum.

I shall ignore your first requirement and strongly recommend that you get a wide experience of as many boats as you can before selecting a particular model. They all have their own 'little habits' and knowing what they are will really help on a cold wet night trying to get your vessel to an unknown anchorage and the motion keeps making you trying to empty the contents of your last four meals onto the cockpit floor.

If you have other people in your life involving them in the process really helps.

 

[andylipsberg]

Welcome to the forum.

I shall ignore your first requirement and strongly recommend that you get a wide experience of as many boats as you can before selecting a particular model. They all have their own 'little habits' and knowing what they are will really help on a cold wet night trying to get your vessel to an unknown anchorage and the motion keeps making you trying to empty the contents of your last four meals onto the cockpit floor.

If you have other people in your life involving them in the process really helps.

agree. I believe regarding the motion you can drill down unwanted boats based on their technical data such as displacement. again, there are so many different boat options.

 

[Tranona]

Almost impossible to advise. If based on "personal experience" if you ask 10 people you will probably get 15 answers - all different. There is a huge variety of different styles of boats in that size range, simply because people have different views on what suits them, and manufacturers try to meet those needs.

However there are clearly many common themes (just like cars) and builders who want to sell in volume offer boats that attract a wide range of buyers. Therefore, the big European builders offer a range of boats that are very similar and compete head on in the market. When I bought (new) in that size range, my short list had 5 different makes and I would have been happy to own any of them. inevitably you can only choose one so you choose the one that "speaks" to you.

So my suggestion is that you buy a boat from the is range, from Bavaria, Beneteau, Jenneau, Hanse as not only with this give you more boats to choose from, but will be easier to sell when you move on. None will disappoint, and after a few years you will get to know what your preferences are in terms of performance, layouts, style etc that will feed into your next choice.

Good luck.

 

[lustyd]

yes, that's the idea. most of the boats are outside the country, so it means travelling either to Sweden, Finland or even further in Europe. locally we don't have offer at all, at least it's totally not attractive.

Hopefully you're aware of the need to pay VAT on imported boats if you're bringing it home.

Regarding the "try lots of boats", I've done that since buying my first and have no regrets. I loved that boat and she loved me. It wasn't the perfect boat, none are, but if it gets you sailing and when you get on board it feels right then don't hesitate even if it's the first one you've stepped on. This advice assumes the boat is sound and seaworthy, of course.

 

[pvb]

Welcome to the forums!

If you have limited sailing experience and want to single-hand, I'd suggest 37ft might be a sensible upper limit. Ideally, I'd suggest you look for a boat which is set up for single-handing - eg in-mast furling, lines brought back to the cockpit, decent autopilot, plotter in the cockpit. If you're planning to berth in marinas, I'd add a bowthruster to that list as modern production boats tend to have a fair amount of windage.

As Tranona said, you won't go far wrong choosing a boat from any of the main production builders. Trying lots of boats usually isn't practical, and in any case they'll all mostly behave in a similar manner.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Thats tending to large for a first sail boat as boats above say 32 foot have their own management issues, in berthing, anchoring or picking up moorings. Not to mention sail handling.

All of that can be overcome but what cant be overcome is probably the price, and as other have said buying a second hand boast you may spend at least 50% more on refurb (maybe engine, nav system, heating, sails, standing rigging for certain and probably the liferaft, and maybe even sails). Nothing 35ft or above is cheap and if you find you dont like that model then you will inevitably lose money selling it on, even more annoying if you have spent oodles doing it up to ocean capable spec.

Be willing to pay more for boat with some of the more expensive defects attended to by an active user, rather than one lost unused in a yard. Spending £15k on refurbish only increases the value perhaps £5k

If you already had crewed a boat you thought of buying then that would be fine. You would have some idea of its qualities and its bad points - right now you only have the makers gloss with no idea how it applies to your sensitivities and skills.

If you have had no great experience do your day skipper practical or baltic equivalent - that gets you to experience one boat. Crew for a few other folk then do your coastal practical - that gets you onto a few more.

Most of us start small and work up over the next 20 years. If I knew then what I know now I could have skipped a few stages myself - but I didnt. Lucky you if you can go straight to the top.

A larger boat is more comfortable but plenty of 31 footers go on ocean voyages.

PS nothing is comfortable in a rolling sea or banging headsea, some are just less uncomfortable. The Shallow Baltic waters have their own reputation

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

Hi,
Welcome to the forum. I would echo Oldmanofthehills' comments regarding training and size of boat. Take part in a course of training, and not just one course; the more you learn the more you will realise you need to learn. This will get you onto a few different boats. The average cost of a week's course anywhere in Europe is about €600. The same goes for chartering , if you share the boat with others. You should also perhaps join a sailing club, one where you can volunteer to crew on other members' boats.
Starting off with a 37-footer is not something I would advise. A novice driver would start off with something like a Nissan MIcra, rather than, say, a Ford Ranger. My recommendation for a first boat would be something like a Beneteau First 211, which can be easily single-handed, is not expensive to maintain, and most importantly is not expensive to repair when you inevitably hit something. Also the damage you can do to other boats is considerably less with a small light boat than with something of the size discussed above.
It is much more satisfying to perfect all the manoeuvres; coming alongside under sail, picking up a buoy etc., in a small nimble boat, than plodding about in something much larger. I have heard it said that the size of the boat is inversely proportional to the amount of fun to be had with it.
Move on to a boat perhaps 37ft when you have a solid background in the skills required to keep control of it.

 

[wully1]

If you are sailing mainly in the Baltic I’d be looking at max 35 ft... Most of the harbour seem set up for sub 35 ft boats as that seems what most folk over there sail - from what I’ve seen.

Make sure it has an open pullpit as you’ll be getting off the front most of the time..

 

[jwfrary]

You probably won’t buy exactly what you want first time.

buy something smaller say 34ft, not too racy. You can always go bigger and racier in a few years time when you have built up some skill and confidence., big yachts can get a little interesting in marinas and anchorages.

something like a Hanse, Bavaria, Oceanis, dufour, sun oddessey. There’s less to choose between them that you would think. If you like the look of it and the interior then go for it.

get a survey. - it will help you negotiate a fair price and also help you learn the boat.

good luck.

 

[andylipsberg]

great advice. thank you. All brands kinda like except Hanse. Oceanis are quite difficult to find in Scandinavia, more Bavarias out here.

 

[andylipsberg]

Hi,
Welcome to the forum. I would echo Oldmanofthehills' comments regarding training and size of boat. Take part in a course of training, and not just one course; the more you learn the more you will realise you need to learn. This will get you onto a few different boats. The average cost of a week's course anywhere in Europe is about €600. The same goes for chartering , if you share the boat with others. You should also perhaps join a sailing club, one where you can volunteer to crew on other members' boats.
Starting off with a 37-footer is not something I would advise. A novice driver would start off with something like a Nissan MIcra, rather than, say, a Ford Ranger. My recommendation for a first boat would be something like a Beneteau First 211, which can be easily single-handed, is not expensive to maintain, and most importantly is not expensive to repair when you inevitably hit something. Also the damage you can do to other boats is considerably less with a small light boat than with something of the size discussed above.
It is much more satisfying to perfect all the manoeuvres; coming alongside under sail, picking up a buoy etc., in a small nimble boat, than plodding about in something much larger. I have heard it said that the size of the boat is inversely proportional to the amount of fun to be had with it.
Move on to a boat perhaps 37ft when you have a solid background in the skills required to keep control of it.

Thanks. worth considering. I currently have already a coastal skipper license and I'm doing dinghies on a weekly bases during the summer.

 

[andylipsberg]

If you are sailing mainly in the Baltic I’d be looking at max 35 ft... Most of the harbour seem set up for sub 35 ft boats as that seems what most folk over there sail - from what I’ve seen.

Make sure it has an open pullpit as you’ll be getting off the front most of the time..

I know one guy with 50ft sailboat and I see in his eyes he struggling big time. before he was doing long passages outside Baltic sea. things changed.

 

[andylipsberg]

Almost impossible to advise. If based on "personal experience" if you ask 10 people you will probably get 15 answers - all different. There is a huge variety of different styles of boats in that size range, simply because people have different views on what suits them, and manufacturers try to meet those needs.

However there are clearly many common themes (just like cars) and builders who want to sell in volume offer boats that attract a wide range of buyers. Therefore, the big European builders offer a range of boats that are very similar and compete head on in the market. When I bought (new) in that size range, my short list had 5 different makes and I would have been happy to own any of them. inevitably you can only choose one so you choose the one that "speaks" to you.

So my suggestion is that you buy a boat from the is range, from Bavaria, Beneteau, Jenneau, Hanse as not only with this give you more boats to choose from, but will be easier to sell when you move on. None will disappoint, and after a few years you will get to know what your preferences are in terms of performance, layouts, style etc that will feed into your next choice.

Good luck.

thank you. very good to the point. If I had cash I want to burn I would go for Hallberg-Rassy as I like their boats too, but in that case I wouldn't ask for an advice

 

[andylipsberg]

Welcome to the forums!

If you have limited sailing experience and want to single-hand, I'd suggest 37ft might be a sensible upper limit. Ideally, I'd suggest you look for a boat which is set up for single-handing - eg in-mast furling, lines brought back to the cockpit, decent autopilot, plotter in the cockpit. If you're planning to berth in marinas, I'd add a bowthruster to that list as modern production boats tend to have a fair amount of windage.

As Tranona said, you won't go far wrong choosing a boat from any of the main production builders. Trying lots of boats usually isn't practical, and in any case they'll all mostly behave in a similar manner.

in mast furling is the only thing kind that scares me if wether turns bad and you can't furl in when you need it.

 

[andylipsberg]

Thats tending to large for a first sail boat as boats above say 32 foot have their own management issues, in berthing, anchoring or picking up moorings. Not to mention sail handling.

All of that can be overcome but what cant be overcome is probably the price, and as other have said buying a second hand boast you may spend at least 50% more on refurb (maybe engine, nav system, heating, sails, standing rigging for certain and probably the liferaft, and maybe even sails). Nothing 35ft or above is cheap and if you find you dont like that model then you will inevitably lose money selling it on, even more annoying if you have spent oodles doing it up to ocean capable spec.

Be willing to pay more for boat with some of the more expensive defects attended to by an active user, rather than one lost unused in a yard. Spending £15k on refurbish only increases the value perhaps £5k

If you already had crewed a boat you thought of buying then that would be fine. You would have some idea of its qualities and its bad points - right now you only have the makers gloss with no idea how it applies to your sensitivities and skills.

If you have had no great experience do your day skipper practical or baltic equivalent - that gets you to experience one boat. Crew for a few other folk then do your coastal practical - that gets you onto a few more.

Most of us start small and work up over the next 20 years. If I knew then what I know now I could have skipped a few stages myself - but I didnt. Lucky you if you can go straight to the top.

A larger boat is more comfortable but plenty of 31 footers go on ocean voyages.

PS nothing is comfortable in a rolling sea or banging headsea, some are just less uncomfortable. The Shallow Baltic waters have their own reputation

very valuable comment. thank you. yeah, you might be right, I should start with something smaller such as 31ft to see if I need an upgrade after few years at all, as the joy of sailing doesn't change with the size.

apart of short and annoying wave frequency and changing weather, what else Baltic waters have?

 

[andylipsberg]

Hopefully you're aware of the need to pay VAT on imported boats if you're bringing it home.

Regarding the "try lots of boats", I've done that since buying my first and have no regrets. I loved that boat and she loved me. It wasn't the perfect boat, none are, but if it gets you sailing and when you get on board it feels right then don't hesitate even if it's the first one you've stepped on. This advice assumes the boat is sound and seaworthy, of course.

yep. I'm looking for VAT paid sailboat.