First night passage...

[john_morris_uk]

I think that this was a masterclass in how to contradict yourself in one paragraph. "Entering a port at night is no harder than in daytime, and this is how I scared myself witless while trying to do it".

My experience is that people vary greatly in their ability to transfer information from a chart or plotter into the real world around them Those without this facility can manage, but have to deal with things very methodically, and always proceed on the basis of what they know to be true, which is how navigation should be done anyway.

Perhaps it reads that way but I was trying to reinforce a basic navigation principle of ‘don’t keep going blindly on if you’re not sure where you are.’ Pilotage into an unfamiliar port isn’t as easy by night as by day, but with a bit of practice it’s not that difficult either. As others have said, I don’t think the OP may have that experience and competence yet.
I’m all for being adventurous, but not to the point of being foolhardy.

(Note to OP. They’re charts not maps. )

 

[Daydream believer]

The Royal Temple is at the top of Westcliffe.. It used to be very welcoming to visitors in oilies. ut thwt was a long time ago.

It is why one goes to Ramsgate- - It is the walk up the hill that is not so warming to the heart

 

[Adios]

Charts are maps. And its not automatically foolhardy to be doing something for the first time. Only doing too many things for the first time at the same time might be. You're the one who has to judge if that would be the case. Don't be put off just do your homework and pick a day with suitable weather.

 

[Daydream believer]

This is bit unknown, I have never been in real chop tidal chop. From past experience, I don't think I could get really badly sea sick. My Achilles 24 is rather praised for handling in rough water.
Also, I will listen to the weather forecast - and this is another 'test' - if I can't get hold for forecast midway - I might retire.

You will not be able to "retire " if you are to the east of the Kentish Knock.
As for the chop. It is not so much that it is rough, but if you have to resort to your outboard you will make zero progress. If you get caught with a wind near the bow it will push you off course & make progress very slow. That is the point to note.
But it is NOT always like that, so do not be afraid, only aware of the possibilities.
If you go in calm weather that may also mean lots of motoring. So plenty of fuel might be a good idea
Do not forget that when you go, you have to come home, so allow some time to get a rest & breathing space so you can chose the weather. Plus you will have to consider a slightly different tidal plan. You will need the north going stream to get you clear of Ramsgate for sure.

Where will you be returning to?
Lowestoft or Osea

 

[Daydream believer]

These days I do not have look at my GPS to go to Ramsgate; but in the 70's it was a real stressful trip going across the sunk & through the Edinburgh channels etc & I can understand that, even now with a chart plotter, a beginner would regard it as a real challenge. I think I would want to start from the mouth of the Blackwater, or Colne & do the trip in daylight first time though.
Possibly come home at night instead.
If the OP does it he will feel a real sense of pride & I really hope it goes well for him, whenever it happens

 

[slawosz]

I really appreciate any discouraging comments, as this thread is for me to gather information about a very ambitious voyage (well, for me). Its plan maximum for this summer, not something I have to do. I know its bit of a challenge,- I rather try to gather information and find out about unknown unknowns. But by all means, I won't tell - I will go, I won't listen to anybody!

I am quite comfortable with charts and I spend lot of time in the past with using maps for orientation and its not directly applicable, I feel more confident as ground rules are similar. Regarding other examples, I am trying to acquire as much knowledge so I can be more focused on things I am not familar with. Like boat handling - I am trying to sail in the harder condition, even if its just local pond Laser sailing on F6 during the winter (and capsizing a lot). But I was also few times only yacht on Blackwater when it was gusty (nothing above F6) and rainy. Also, during the spring, I will create new reefing system, which will allow me to reef easily in half a minute or so.

Just to be clear, I would never try to enter an unfamiliar port during the night. From other 'risky' outdoor activities I know I have to have plans B and C.

With the greatest respect, after re-reading your posts - and especially learning that you've only just bought colregs cards and another that shows you don't know that TSS is, plus numerous pointers in other posts - I strongly suggest you spend a great deal more time learning navigation and seamanship in coastal waters and undertaking some training courses before embarking on a trip of this magnitude for which I am quite certain you are nowhere near ready for.

I didn't know the shortcut 'TSS' but I am well aware of their existence and importance. Same with colregs - I want to know them very well, and its for refreshing my knowledge - to be able quicky recognize ships that for sure won't change course. Most of the time I keep clear from any vessel or change my direction early to make the life of others easier.

I am inclined to agree with Slowboat35 hence asking your objectives. On a fabulous moonlight summer's balmy evening with a moderate NE, it will be a fabulous passage. On a dark night with unsettled conditions and adverse/changing/gusting winds - ugh. I would suggest it would be much more fun (I assume we all get out there for fun) to do it first in daylight. Expressing some concerns (albeit limited concerns) about leaving the River Blackwater in the dark just suggests it would be better to try some shorter passages and build your experieince and knowledge. Lowestoft to Ramsgit is @ 72nm and at 4 kts average is a 18 hour sail (without help of the tide - a lot of the benefit would by negated by the length of the passage). I admit I am now old and decrepit but I just think this 'experience' is a little higher up on your list than it ought to be.

I regret being a bit negative and if you disagree I would be happy to help with the tides.

Actually, after reading this topic, I am happier with exiting Blackwater than I was. Main reason for night close to Lowesoft is plenty of space, less traffic and easier navigation. In worst case, as I wrote above, I can quit my voyage earier. But now I am considering 'training trip' which would involve leaving Blackwater at high tide when night starts, riding the tide towards Harwich until tide turns and comming back.

And by any means, I won't depart with wind higher than force 4, and with the southeasterly wind (which is rather rare I presume) I will think twice before departing. Not to mention that I am ready to leave my yacht in any of those ports and come back when conditions will be better.

 

[Never Grumble]

a basic navigation principle of ‘don’t keep going blindly on if you’re not sure where you are.’

Thats always the best advice, I remember navigating out of Helsinki and the commanding officer asking do we pass this post to port or starboard, my response was I am not sure, we stopped the ship, checked and got it right. Better be an honest man than one aground.

As for the OPs intention, I'll leave it to him to decide whether he has the experience and knowledge to sail this route in the dark or not. I'd probably recommend shorter night sails to start with, as opposed what sounds like a serious undertaking.

 

[slawosz]

@Athomson Thank you for the nice words

You will not be able to "retire " if you are to the east of the Kentish Knock.
As for the chop. It is not so much that it is rough, but if you have to resort to your outboard you will make zero progress. If you get caught with a wind near the bow it will push you off course & make progress very slow. That is the point to note.

So that's why my 'decision point' will be Long Sand Head. Based on progress, time of the day, and tidal situation I will make the decision to head home or continue. It's not about ambition or accomplishment, it's more about 'proper sailing', and spending some time on the boat. As I stated above, a lot of things need to align so I decide on such a trip.

Where will you be returning to?
Lowestoft or Osea

Osea, I have my mooring at Marconi.

 

[Tomahawk]

It is why one goes to Ramsgate- - It is the walk up the hill that is not so warming to the heart

We were in the middle of a formal supper one night with everyone in best bib and tucker when four Belgians walked in in full oilies. They were dripping wet and the cold was running down them like ice . Everyone made space for them to get to the bar and get a drink in. They were made the most welcome people.

 

[slawosz]

I bought Imray chart with Lowesoft and now I see its quite tricky to get there. In theory not so far, but I didn't realize how strong currents are. Looks like we will probably do Marconi - Harwich - Marconi: leaving with tide and comming back when tide turns. Ramsgate still is our destination for this season, but during the day.

 

[johnalison]

Lowestoft is not especially difficult but there are hazards to beware of. I have only been in and out a few times and have always stuck to the main channels. With GPS a night approach would be OK, but only so long as one’s concentration could be guaranteed. I think your plan of doing the Wallet makes sense, and will be long enough and present enough challenge to give you some idea of what you may have to face. It would be a good idea to give the Naze a wide berth in the dark, since pot markers appear to go there to breed. If you want to please the traditionalists among us, you can refer to the trip from Marconi as going ‘down’ to Harwich.

 

[Adios]

I bought Imray chart with Lowesoft and now I see its quite tricky to get there. In theory not so far, but I didn't realize how strong currents are. Looks like we will probably do Marconi - Harwich - Marconi: leaving with tide and comming back when tide turns. Ramsgate still is our destination for this season, but during the day.

You mean the tides on the way? It can be frustrating when despite sailing nicely through the water the shore is hardly moving for 6 hours, but then you make up the time when the tide is with you. Its not something that should put you off a journey its just something to get used to mentally.

 

[john_morris_uk]

You mean the tides on the way? It can be frustrating when despite sailing nicely through the water the shore is hardly moving for 6 hours, but then you make up the time when the tide is with you. Its not something that should put you off a journey its just something to get used to mentally.

If it’s calm(ish) and there’s anywhere feasible I often kedge for a few hours for the strongest bit of the tide. If it’s a nice day I set the alarm and have a kip. I’ve spent too many hours in the past watching the same headland hardly moving.

 

[Tomahawk]

If it’s calm(ish) and there’s anywhere feasible I often kedge for a few hours for the strongest bit of the tide. If it’s a nice day I set the alarm and have a kip. I’ve spent too many hours in the past watching the same headland hardly moving.

John
Welcome to the. East Coast. When did you move from the heathen west to civilisation?

 

[john_morris_uk]

John
Welcome to the. East Coast. When did you move from the heathen west to civilisation?

I haven’t moved but I’ve sailed nearly all those waters. Including the Thames up to St Catherine’s Dock, I was relief skipper for a sailing charity based on the Crouch for a while so I know the waters a little.

 

[Daydream believer]

I bought Imray chart with Lowesoft and now I see its quite tricky to get there. In theory not so far, but I didn't realize how strong currents are. Looks like we will probably do Marconi - Harwich - Marconi: leaving with tide and comming back when tide turns. Ramsgate still is our destination for this season, but during the day.

Sensible. Do it in steps.

 

[slawosz]

Its mostly because getting to Lowesoft could be tiring because of tide and in general logistics is more complicated - we would need to have lot of luck with weather, plan holidays - lot of things could go bad. Planning days off work could be an issue too. I will try to do night trip from Blackwater and back and we will see how it will go - here we have plenty of possibilities and each of us can escape work for one day with no problem.

 

[tillergirl]

I think there is a good chance of fun. I recall, with a chum, we just planned a night passage because it had been a while. So one summer's night with the tide from West Mersea to Shotley was the plan. We had a pleasant evening on the mooring at Salcot and right at the top of the tide, a huge - I mean HUGE thunderstorm arrived. Short and sharp but after it moved away, the cloud cover stayed. We had expected starry skies. Oh no. The plan was to thread out to the Nass (none of the channel buoyage was lit in those days) and then sail away. First problem - there ain't no Nass light! Pitch dark and no light - it had been taken ashore for maintenace! - and it was really dark. Fortunately we could the glimpse of one of the lateral buoys against the loom of a light so we cut clear. Great sail down and round the Eagle but the wind was building. So we put a reef in. It occurred to me that was the first time when I actually put a reef in, in the dark. Took a lot more time but not really a problem. Then out to the Wallet so as to keep away from lobster pots and a lovely sail. Into Harwich and we wondered if Shotley was awake. Yes, instantly. A nice service. Convenient berth for sleep. Then a good breakfast and out from Shotley to catch the morning flood back to West Mersea - sunny and balmy. A great pair of days. You have caused me to relive the memory. Hardly a tale of bravery and daring but one of the pleasant times.

 

[johnalison]

I think there is a good chance of fun. I recall, with a chum, we just planned a night passage because it had been a while. So one summer's night with the tide from West Mersea to Shotley was the plan. We had a pleasant evening on the mooring at Salcot and right at the top of the tide, a huge - I mean HUGE thunderstorm arrived. Short and sharp but after it moved away, the cloud cover stayed. We had expected starry skies. Oh no. The plan was to thread out to the Nass (none of the channel buoyage was lit in those days) and then sail away. First problem - there ain't no Nass light! Pitch dark and no light - it had been taken ashore for maintenace! - and it was really dark. Fortunately we could the glimpse of one of the lateral buoys against the loom of a light so we cut clear. Great sail down and round the Eagle but the wind was building. So we put a reef in. It occurred to me that was the first time when I actually put a reef in, in the dark. Took a lot more time but not really a problem. Then out to the Wallet so as to keep away from lobster pots and a lovely sail. Into Harwich and we wondered if Shotley was awake. Yes, instantly. A nice service. Convenient berth for sleep. Then a good breakfast and out from Shotley to catch the morning flood back to West Mersea - sunny and balmy. A great pair of days. You have caused me to relive the memory. Hardly a tale of bravery and daring but one of the pleasant times.

It’s a case of the good, the bad, and the ugly, when it comes to night sails. In our last year with the Mystere,1987, we set off for Normandy from the Blackwater, aiming for Ramsgate in the night. Pre-Decca, we worked out way out to the SW Sunk crossing and were just getting through when I asked a certain person to look at the chart and see if we were free to turn south, from SE. On being told that it was OK, I changed course and immediately went aground. On questioning the part-time navigator, I got the reply that it should have been alright because there was blue water marked on the chart! We floated off after an hour or two with a bit of bumping and after misidentifying the N Foreland light because of its red sector made it to Ramsgate and Normandy. We then found that water was slowly filling the bilge and assumed that we had suffered damage from the grounding, but after an extensive search found that it was only a leaking cockpit drain. Sailing is such fun.

 

[Daydream believer]

When i did my first night sail i informed sonny Cole, of Tucker Brown fame, that i was going to cross the Sunk, go through the Edinburgh Channel thence to ostend. he immediately gave me a telling off & said that he did not want to hear of me going down there until I was more experienced.
the way to go to ostend was - leave Burnham on HW get to Longsand Head at LW head 127 deg . keep galloper LV to port, kenntish Knock LV to stbd. head for West Hinder LV thence to ostend.
Actually we got so far off course we had Sandettie LV to port. It was foggy!! On arrival at .5 m from "Ostend" port we saw a boat which happened to be Stella 99 Polaris from our Crouch YC. " is this Ostende?", " No it is Nieuwpoort" " Oh!! b..gger" & a swift change of course.
But it does make a great night sail & far easier than ramsgate & far more fun. I recommend it every time.