First Boat

[Gary66]

Hi,

We will be taking an extended cruise round the med to Cyprus when we retire in 7 years.

In the meantime we would like a boat for a weekend getaway, with the occasional two week break.

My question is do I buy something suitable for extended cruising (40 footish) or something around the 27 foot mark for use in the meantime.
We have little practical experience at the moment, day skipper practical is booked for September.

Also there are the other points to consider petrol/diesel, single/twin, inboard/outdrive and flybridge or not.

I know a lot of this is down to personal choices but any experience/advice would be appreciated.

It seems that when buying a boat there is not the option of a 'test drive'. Most of the boats I have looked at already, they won't even start the engines.

By the way the initial budget is £30,000, but will rise by another £50,000 when we retire.

Regards

Gary

 

[Billy Blue]

When I started I had the same thoughts as you. Fortunately, I chartered a 40 foot boat for a holiday and realised that I didn't need that size and you needed a competent crew to handle it. Great holiday but thankfully I had my son as well as SWMBO. So, I would advise start small and move up in size later. A 40 foot boat is a lot to handle. Learn on a smaller one first and you will also get a much better idea of what you actually want.
I've seen lots of people buy petrol first and then quickly move onto to diesel but the relative costs purchase price v running costs depend on how much you will use it.
You are correct, generally you won't get a test drive. Read the posts on this forum to understand the reasons as well as the other points you have raised.

 

[FalconSteve]

Going by our experience, and many posts on this forum, your first boat is very likely to be the wrong boat for you ; unfortunately you won't be able to preempt this by careful planning.

With this in mind I suggest the following:

Buy diesel - easier to sell.
Buy a boat that is no longer than 30 ft - easier to sell (berthing and associated costs jump at 30ft +)
Write a list of your must haves,would be nice, and day dream attributes. Try and tick at least some of the boxes with your first boat.

We've lived with our first boat for 2 seasons now and we're pretty sure of our next step,but it has taken us this long to really understand our boating heart.

Finally you'll gain alot from this forum, so keep in touch. many of us like to read the tales of other boaters, especially when those tales are accompanied by lashings of pictures. There is bound to be someone in here who can help with any problems you experience along the way, I personally have enjoyed getting Dirty with learning how the mechanics of our boat work, and I've been supported every step of the way by new friends I've made through the forum.

Good luck and enjoy the journey

 

[superheat6k]

The dayskipper course, for instance with one of the well known posters on here will help you better appreciate the type of boat you may require. Suggest you try Jonmendez, Powerskipper (if you want to reverse up channels !) or Solitaire. Falconsteve's advice is good, and bear in mind also the need to be able to maintain it - it is what most of us spend doing about twice as much as we do actually driving the bloody things !

No one gets their first boat choice right,and will change after a couple of seasons, so getting something that is relatively easy to move on is certainly a good idea. Don't be scared to try your luck when you find the boat you like.

 

[rafiki_]

If you are thinking 27' plus, then forget petrol. It will cost you considerably more than a diesel to run, and be very difficult to sell. We started smaller than you are considering, where petrol is viable. Our first 2 boats were a 22' Cuddy (wrong), then a 25' sports cruiser, which was great. Both were petrol. We then took a break, and returned to boating 6 years ago with a 31' sports cruiser with twin diesels. Had 5 great years with her, and then bought a 40' fly which we now love.

 

[Viscount]

I started with a Sealine 285 (twin diesels) over 10 years ago and, despite much advice that your first boat only lasts a short while, I still have the boat and still love it. I suppose, like a house, the costs of changing are considerable whilst you fix what others didn't and also make it the way you want it each time you trade up. Old advice I received for what it's worth (in relation to cars I think) was decide what seems right in terms of compromise between specification and price and then pick one up from that. Hope you get lucky.

 

[Greg2]

Some good advice here already so I'll just play devils advocate for a moment....

We are on our fourth boat having started at 32 feet, then 37, then down to 35 and now at 41. It's been a great journey and I wouldn't change any of it as we have done what we can afford at the time but there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that our current 41 footer is the best by a country mile. It is also the easiest to handle and we can do it with the two of us with ease. Moreover I would probably be happier single handing this boat than I would the 32 or the 35 because they were on outdrives and a were lot more difficult to handle and moor at close quarters.

As already said every boat is a compromise and you won't get a real understanding about what you want until you get a bit of experience but you can probably guarantee that if you go small you WILL want bigger, particularly if you intend to do extended cruising and live aboard for long periods of time. You would get good experience and have fun along the way though

I would say that there are a couple of important factors in your situation. The first is choice of drive system. For long term cruising my suggestion would be shafts for ease of maintenance and reliability. I have had outdrives and sure they are more efficient and you can lift the legs to dry out or clear a rope but they need to be looked after and can be expensive. The second is that unless you are very judicious and/or lucky changing a boat will cost you money in terms of depreciation (depending what you buy) and brokerage fees. This could eat a bit of a hole in your overall budget.

For the long term cruising space will be a key factor so aft cabin is worth considering as you get substantially more than a sports cruiser or flybridge. Fuel costs will be another important one so a boat that handle well at displacement speeds would be another key factor in my book. Choice here is to go for something that can lift its skirts if necessary such as a semi-displacement boat (Broom, Haines, Westwood etc) or to go for a pure displacement boat such as a Dutch steel cruiser. A planing boat with shafts will also be fine for low speed but get one with a skeg keel and the right gearboxes if you want the option to poodle along on one engine to save a few engine hours and a bit of fuel (particularly useful on inland waterways).

So, another option would be to do lots of research, look at a lot of boats, talk to lots of boatie people and buy the long term boat now. You can then spend the intervening years getting to know it inside out and making the changes and upgrades that you want for the cruising dream.

Having muddied the waters a bit I'll go now

 

[Billy Blue]

Lots more good advice here but .... you are unlikely to be able to get that long term boat now with a £30K budget, a better chance with that bigger budget (another £50K) later. At £30K for a larger boat, you are going to be looking at probably something manufactured in the 80's

 

[Morgz63]

I am in the process of buying my first boat and have settled on a 2000 spec Doral 250SE. I've been looking at lots of different boats both online and all along the south coast and I've read loads of forums, reports, reviews and eventually ended up with a wish list of features. One thing's for sure, you can't get everything ticked off your wishlist in a used boat (the more ticks, the bigger the price!). The Doral gives us most of what we want and the wife liked it, which should help the process. Survey Friday and hopefully it will be ours in time for the end of the month! Loads of interesting stuff and useful tips on this forum, I just need to get on the water and build some experience and refresh my knowledge. I did my PS2 four years ago, when I decided I fancied a boat and we moved down nearer the coast two years ago.

 

[Gary66]

Thanks for all the advice, it's still as clear as mud!

Does anyone have experience of the Sealine 305 Statesman, Chris-Craft Amerosport or a Sealine 290 Ambassador. I know they all have outdrives but there doesn't seem to be much on shafts within my budget.
With regards to maintenance, I've rebuilt several petrol engines from two stroke mx bikes to V6 car engines so I'm not afraid of getting grease under my nails. Also I'm a sparks by trade so the wiring side of things doesn't bother me.
My main concern is the cost of repairs to VP engines, the old Cummins and Ford Dover's aren't really available at the smaller end of the boat market.

One other boat I have seen is a Sunseeker Rapallo 36, Ford Dovers on shafts, requires a bit of work but not a lot of money, any views?

 

[superheat6k]

If you are interested in a Sealine ask the same questions on the Sealine Forum - Luke and co there are very convivial and even allow Fairline owning interlopers to join in occasionally !

 

[PlanB]

What is not clear from your post is how you are going to get to the Med. This makes a huge difference to the boat you are going to buy.
Our first boat was a Princess 435 which we bought to the Med ourselves via Biscay after three years learning and research. That was a boat up to the trip. Some of tbe smaller ones being discussed here would be difficult to get to the Med other than on a truck.
What are your plans.

 

[Gary66]

Probably through the French canals/rivers, I've been investigating that route already.
This is one of the reasons for the post, how larger a boat do I need to get from Port St Louis round the coast to Cyprus?
I have sailed on a Contessa 32 round the Baltic and have some experience, but it was a few years ago.
I have been advised that the minimum to live on is 41 foot, yet a 32 foot Fairline is in the process of coming back from Turkey, via the French waterways.

 

[johng39]

A very good friend of mine has the Sealine 290 with twin petrols. Sadly he has had issues with these over the last 2 years and I would say that with diesels it is an excellent boat. Petrols, er no. Mainly because the range is awful on it and getting petrol is difficult and expensive. He has the version with twin fuel tanks (I am fairly sure they do a version with smaller single tank) and as said he struggles to cover any real mileage between fuel stops.

As a boat, he has a great time and we have had 8 people snugly sat around the table in the cockpit eating a meal...... It does surf very well down a wash and gets to some hairy angles while doing so, but it is a great boat, just not great engines.

 

[PlanB]

The size of boat to live on depends on you, really. If there are two of you, you do need some personal space, not to mention room for "stuff".
Living aboard you do need to think of your comfort, especially sleeping. And it gets hot in the Med.
When we were buying our boat, someone who had done our trip said that we needed more space than the 37 footer we were looking at, or we would be in danger of killing each other!
Twin shafts diesel is better than outdrive and to me petrol is a nono.
Feel free to pm if you have any specific queries.

 

[kashurst]

tricky one this - if you want to go through the french canals your are limited by air draught (height) to about 3.5m. So this limits which types of boat you can do it with, probably compromising what boat you then live/cruise on around the med. A few people in the marina where I am based have done this trip but all with boats less than 40 feet. Saying that, they do live on them most of the time.

Aft cabin boats seem popular for live aboards as you get personal space and generally more room inside, storage etc. A budget of @ 80K when you retire will buy you a lot of boat - shaft drives are easy to live with. Also boat prices in the med are quite a bit lower than the UK too. May be better to hire a boat(s) to do some of france and buy when you get there, save on shipping etc.

I noticed your concern re volvos - parts are not too bad, do the usual and get an engine survey and look for a boat with some recent history and the core engine will be OK, it's the outside bits that fail usually through neglect. The big upside of volvo
in the med is you can get parts very readily as they dominate the market.