Firing Practice Area

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NormanS

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The MOD have a firing practice area to the west of the Outer Hebrides. The relevant Admiralty Chart has a note, stating:
"No restrictions are placed on the right to transit the firing practice areas at any time. The firing practice areas are operated using a clear range procedure; exercises and firing only take place when the areas are considered to be clear of all shipping"

For the last couple of weeks, and continuing this week, a Nav Warning has been issued, stating that an area with a radius of 40 nautical miles, with its centre approximately 40 miles offshore is an extremely hazardous area, because of live weapons firing, and all vessels are "requested" to vacate the area. This area extends on the land from Barra Head in the south, to the north of North Uist, covers approximately 5,000 square miles of sea, and includes the St Kilda archipelago and the Monach Islands. , Without going 80 miles offshore, it is impossible to sail up or down the west side of Barra, the Uists or Benbecula, without entering the hazardous area.

Using a spotter plane, radar, and AIS, Hebrides Range Control were contacting any vessels in the area, and instructing them to leave forthwith. What they were insisting on was way beyond the note on the Chart, which I repeat, says "No restrictions......."

Why are they being allowed to exceed their authority?
 
What authority are they exceeding? The information on the chart is only a notice, not a statute.

Only once you're out of the way will firing commence; you can hang around the area, but you'll only delay the exercise if you're noticed, and put you in the danger area if you aren't.

Sounds like the range officer is doing his/her job.
 
When testing Harriers at West Freugh - Luce Bay near Stranraer - we often had to scrub the sortie ( £20,000 an hour in the late 1980's ) because fishing boats were in the area despite all the warnings.

There was radar surveillance, and every aircraft had to do a ' dry run ' to personally check the range was clear - and be tracked on radar - before being allowed ' In Hot ' to release weapons or stores.

Though when testing the Sea Eagle anti-ship missile - the British, bigger more intelligent version of the sea-skimming Exocet - at Aberporth the pilot was cleared ' in hot ' but thought the angle looked slightly wrong so held off; the contact turned out to be a fishing boat, not the target raft - that would have got their attention :)

My dad tried exercising his ' right to passage ' across the Lulworth trials range, and was met by a huge splash like a depth charge a few thousand yards in front; either they didn't know he was there or it was some witty type in a tank.

That range is a pain to anyone going along the southern UK coast requiring a detour of a good few miles ( it's closed every August ) - there are Range patrol boats as at West Freugh and Aperporth off Wales - but the 40 miles you quote off the Hebrides does sound excessive for a small boat to go round.

I think your answer may be the recent escalation in the war of words between Trump, Putin, N Korea and China, people are trying and calibrating their systems ' just in case things kick off ' and more likely as a show to the other side.
 
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Things are very different these days, but my father used to recount how in his NS days they would drop a few rounds of 303 into the general vicinity of boats that were unwise enough to stray into the waters off Browndown to encourage them on their way.

There have also been a few 'issues' more recently in multinational exercises not necessarily that far away from the northern isles when the personnel or vessels involved have come from nations that have a culture/history of being slightly less tolerant of civilians who get on their high horses ("Why are they being allowed to exceed their authority?") when asked to vacate an area for their own safety. Wherever the official/senior view has been of these, those who actually work for a living have generally found them rather amusing.
 
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En route from Solent to Portland over 10yrs ago we heard a somewhat bumptious raggie exercising his "right to navigate" through the Lulworth Firing Range. The firing stopped.

Soon Ch16 crackled into life: "One hopes the total-(worst expletive possible to many) who denied an eighteen year old his vital pre-Afghanistan firing practice feels happy with himself!"

.....long silence. To this day I don't know whether this was a consequence of (a) a vague agreement on the part of the CG/Military bods with this last transmission, (b) the pointlessness of asking the last vessel to identify itself, or (c) whether they were simply incapacitated by laughter ;)
 
dom said:
En route from Solent to Portland over 10yrs ago we heard a somewhat bumptious raggie exercising his "right to navigate" through the Lulworth Firing Range. The firing stopped.

Soon Ch16 crackled into life: "One hopes the total-(worst expletive possible to many) who denied an eighteen year old his vital pre-Afghanistan firing practice feels happy with himself!"

.....long silence. To this day I don't know whether this was a consequence of (a) a vague agreement on the part of the CG/Military bods with this last transmission, (b) the pointlessness of asking the last vessel to identify itself, or (c) whether they were simply incapacitated by laughter ;)
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I'm a little doubtful about that, even our lot could surely have got him in.

I was at the West Freugh range control when a Sea Harrier was cleared " In hot, kine theodolite cameras start tracking - Oh God No ! "

The range people called up " Oh no has he piled in ? "

" No the ringo's pulled off my coke can ! " :)
 
Lost count of how many hours and gazillion pounds I've seen wasted on torpedo firing ranges. Mostly because some self important 'You Can't Tell Me What To Do' type compromises the area. It's just rudeness generally. The range will stop though until it's clear. Arris sin up the day of lots of people.

Most countries with a coastline have firing ranges, they are essential to ensure that the people and the bullets work. Some people just don't think about that though.

The range south of Cadiz sends the safety boat over, warns you to stay close inshore and they fire overhead and out to sea......
 
The Wembury range by Plymouth ( now closed ? ) did that with us as we came back across the Channel in bad vis - we had no VHF then and I suspect they didn't know we were even there, as teenagers we were just grateful to find England let alone Plan A Plymouth; the 4.5" - I presume that's what it was - shells shook the whole boat thoroughly as they went over, we could see the target raft in the distance; I think we had some white flares by then and maybe should have set one off, but what are the chances of someone thinking it was a distress signal...

I liked the Admiralty Notice To Mariners " automatic weapons are regularly fired in the vicinity of the Mewstone so vessels should not loiter in this area ". :)

There's a similar message on the posts by the rifle range on the way to Port Solent.
 
Last week they were to fire into the route of a well publicised and notified yacht race (Rathlin to St Kilda), but someone apparently relented and agreed that the area could be used. As said above It's a huge area they're wanting vacated. Makes me wonder about the precision if they need a target the size of Wales off the west of the outer Hebrides?
 
MM5AHO said:
Last week they were to fire into the route of a well publicised and notified yacht race (Rathlin to St Kilda), but someone apparently relented and agreed that the area could be used. As said above It's a huge area they're wanting vacated. Makes me wonder about the precision if they need a target the size of Wales off the west of the outer Hebrides?
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So you're basically saying you heard that there might have been a problem with a (presumably frightfully important) boat race, but some people had a chat and now there isn't? Jolly good, carry on.


Oh and that you don't have a scooby what a Naval exercise is.
 
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NormanS said:
The MOD have a firing practice area to the west of the Outer Hebrides. The relevant Admiralty Chart has a note, stating:
"No restrictions are placed on the right to transit the firing practice areas at any time. The firing practice areas are operated using a clear range procedure; exercises and firing only take place when the areas are considered to be clear of all shipping"

For the last couple of weeks, and continuing this week, a Nav Warning has been issued, stating that an area with a radius of 40 nautical miles, with its centre approximately 40 miles offshore is an extremely hazardous area, because of live weapons firing, and all vessels are "requested" to vacate the area. This area extends on the land from Barra Head in the south, to the north of North Uist, covers approximately 5,000 square miles of sea, and includes the St Kilda archipelago and the Monach Islands. , Without going 80 miles offshore, it is impossible to sail up or down the west side of Barra, the Uists or Benbecula, without entering the hazardous area.

Using a spotter plane, radar, and AIS, Hebrides Range Control were contacting any vessels in the area, and instructing them to leave forthwith. What they were insisting on was way beyond the note on the Chart, which I repeat, says "No restrictions......."

Why are they being allowed to exceed their authority?
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So sail up the East side....
 
we were sailing back from st kilda last august - i called up range control as everyone else was, they most politely asked me to stay N of a certain line (we were heading for the Monachs, and the diversion was a coupke of miles at most). the wind was pushing us towards the line, but they ended the ex before we got pushed too far south. all very pleasant.

i suppose my take on it is that we are there for leisure, and they have a job to do, so have always done what they ask (in the past in the clyde/loch long etc)

you could go west of the area? or wait til they knock off at 5 ish...
 
Some of these air-to-air missiles have a 100 mile range and the hypersonic anti-land target / ship things well over 1000NM so if the thing being tested went rogue it could be embarassing - taking out a yot is nothing, the real fuss would start when one goes straight through a cruise liner, " OOPS, sorry about that ! "
 
Some really interesting, if misguided, replies here. Typified by "can't sail up the west side - so sail up the east".

I repeat that the area from which all vessels are being excluded covers an area of 5,000 square miles, and goes from the shoreline out to 80 miles offshore, incidentally including the recommended route for laden tankers passing west of the Hebrides. So it's not like some minor deviation of course. When we're sold the line about so called Smart Bombs, and missiles that are so accurate that they can be directed to a particular window in a building, one has to wonder why such a huge sea area is required. But I suppose they have to play with their toys somewhere, and presumably they assume that some distant area to the northwest of Scotland is far enough away from "civilisation".
 
Seajet said:
There's a similar message on the posts by the rifle range on the way to Port Solent.
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Indeed - though the back of Tipner Ranges is "just" the danger area behind the butts, not part of the range itself. All being well, nothing should be landing there, unlike say Lulworth where they may deliberately fire into the sea. Rounds will only enter the danger area when some junior matelot looks over the rear sight instead of through it (as I have once seen) or gets his finger caught in the trigger while foolishly trying to adjust his sling (as I have also seen) - and presumably the calculation is that such events are sufficiently rare that the odds of it happening at exactly the same time as a yacht is exactly where the misplaced round happens to land, are insignificant enough to tolerate. Same basis you can walk your dog in the land danger area behind Ash Ranges but not build a house there.

I go through the Tipner Ranges area on a fairly regular basis and can't say I worry about getting shot; though for that matter I also can't remember the last time the range was actually active. Maybe the Navy can't afford the ammunition at the moment? :p

Pete
 
NormanS said:
Some really interesting, if misguided, replies here. Typified by "can't sail up the west side - so sail up the east".

I repeat that the area from which all vessels are being excluded covers an area of 5,000 square miles, and goes from the shoreline out to 80 miles offshore, incidentally including the recommended route for laden tankers passing west of the Hebrides. So it's not like some minor deviation of course. When we're sold the line about so called Smart Bombs, and missiles that are so accurate that they can be directed to a particular window in a building, one has to wonder why such a huge sea area is required. But I suppose they have to play with their toys somewhere, and presumably they assume that some distant area to the northwest of Scotland is far enough away from "civilisation".
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Them playing with their 'toys' distrupts your hobby, oh dear, what a pity, never mind, (BTW if you gave it a moment's thought you might be able to work out why the tanker route is included and how magically they are able to carry on operating on that route through the exercise.)

capnsensible said:
self important 'You Can't Tell Me What To Do' type
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Elecglitch said:
Them playing with their 'toys' distrupts your hobby, oh dear, what a pity, never mind, (BTW if you gave it a moment's thought you might be able to work out why the tanker route is included and how magically they are able to carry on operating on that route through the exercise.)
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Right then, please explain how you think that laden tankers can carry on through the prohibited area. Your explanation will be of great interest to both Hebrides Range Control, and also the shipping companies.
 
Elecglitch said:
So you're basically saying you heard that there might have been a problem with a (presumably frightfully important) boat race, but some people had a chat and now there isn't? Jolly good, carry on.


Oh and that you don't have a scooby what a Naval exercise is.
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There was an MOD advisory that the exercise had been suspended and that the exclusion didn't apply for the applicable period. So during that suspension the race continued. But your assumption about my knowledge of naval exercises is probably right. I know only what they advise - an exclusion zone to keep out of unless the exclusion is lifted. Did I do wrong?
 
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