Fire Extinguishers

[riverliver]

interesting thread as I'm researching the expiry point at the mo as my BSS certificate is due for renewal. An earlier poster suggested this doesn't apply to private motor boats but that is not right. A current BSS certificate is mandatory for all inland water vessels with gas electrical or heating systems. They last 5 years but (first time for me for renewal ) they seem pretty rigorous. No idea why this doesn't apply to boats on coastal moorings.

As a previous poster stated there doesn't seem to be an expiry date for fire extinguishers as long as the gauge is not in the red. However I'm going to check with the BSS examiner and let you know the answer.

Anyway for a BSS certificate standard for a boat under 11 metres long is 2 fire extinguishers and one fire blanket and 3 beyond that length.

PS also requires at least one CO monitor.

Seems to me that even if you don't need the certificate its a pretty good check list for a private owner to make a safety check. The BSS website gives a load of info so worth a look.

 

[TSB240]

Don't go down that route. My experience of a BSS gas survey by a ditch crawler "expert" was hilarious.
Basically it boiled down to him condeming any yacht using a cooking appliance if it did not have fixed ventilation to meet the total combustion air needs for oven , hobs and grill . Opening the hatch was offered as a solution but not acceptable. My cooker had a do not use sticker placed on it. ?. He passed it then!

 

[Stemar]

Rules are made for the guidance of the wise and the blind obedience of fools. In this case, it rather sounds as if the fool is the one trying to enforce it.

Or was he simply enforcing his interpretation of the rules? I can't be bothered to download and wade through the text, but I wouldn't be surprised if it just said something like "adequate ventilation"

 

[Paulie P]

Hey Folks,

I found this thread as I'm looking to replace the 2003 dated Sea-Fire FM-200 automatic fire extinguisher for the engine compartment of the Bavaria 38 that I bought I couple of years ago (my first boat - quite a learning curve).

Firstly, I note that not many people comment that they have an auto extinguisher in the engine compartment. Is that because it's generally considered overkill? I do appreciate that price is a consideration, hence my next question!

Secondly, this is a like-for-like replacement for the unit currently fitted Seafire Extinguisher | Force 4 Chandlery but that has apparently been superceeded by the NFG range: SeaFire NFG Auto Fire Extinguisher | Force 4 Chandlery but they are pretty pricey!

In that light, would anyone know if there is any practical difference between those above and this much cheaper UK made option: FX Automatic Clean Agent Gas Fire Extinguisher FX1000GA Gael Force Marine other than the fact it doesn't have the electrical connections for an activation alarm? This is the manufacturers website: FX1000GA – 2500GA Clean agent gas : FX Fire

Thanks in advance for any advice you might have!

 

[KompetentKrew]

Hey Folks,

I found this thread as I'm looking to replace the 2003 dated Sea-Fire FM-200 automatic fire extinguisher for the engine compartment of the Bavaria 38 that I bought I couple of years ago (my first boat - quite a learning curve).

Firstly, I note that not many people comment that they have an auto extinguisher in the engine compartment. Is that because it's generally considered overkill? I do appreciate that price is a consideration, hence my next question!

Secondly, this is a like-for-like replacement for the unit currently fitted Seafire Extinguisher | Force 4 Chandlery but that has apparently been superceeded by the NFG range: SeaFire NFG Auto Fire Extinguisher | Force 4 Chandlery but they are pretty pricey!

In that light, would anyone know if there is any practical difference between those above and this much cheaper UK made option: FX Automatic Clean Agent Gas Fire Extinguisher FX1000GA Gael Force Marine other than the fact it doesn't have the electrical connections for an activation alarm? This is the manufacturers website: FX1000GA – 2500GA Clean agent gas : FX Fire

Thanks in advance for any advice you might have!

The latter two are nitrogen filled (initially it says "halogen replacement" and then further down it reveals it's nitrogen) whereas the first two are FM-200 and NovecTM 1230.

I'm absolutely no expert, just some muppet who can google and use wikipedia, but I would have thought a tonne of nitrogen would be plenty adequate to douse engine fires. Looks like the NovecTM 1230 was introduced because FM-200 depletes the ozone layer.

 

[[70521]]

Hello and welcome to the forum

I only use Water Mist extinguishers on the boat.

 

[Paulie P]

The latter two are nitrogen filled (initially it says "halogen replacement" and then further down it reveals it's nitrogen) whereas the first two are FM-200 and NovecTM 1230.

I'm absolutely no expert, just some muppet who can google and use wikipedia, but I would have thought a tonne of nitrogen would be plenty adequate to douse engine fires. Looks like the NovecTM 1230 was introduced because FM-200 depletes the ozone layer.

Thanks for the quick response. Hmmm. I'm no expert either (hence asking) but the fxfire website says the pressurising gas (I assume they mean propellant) is Nitrogen but the Extinguishing medium is FK5112:

Extinguishing medium	FK5112
Maximum area protected	1.7-4.2m³
Pressurising gas & pressure	Nitrogen 12 Bar @ 20°C

Googling FK5112, this doc (https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/124688O/3m-novec-1230-fire-protection-fluid.pdf) seems to suggest Novec 1230 is the same as FK5112 (assuming FK-5-1-12 is the same as FK5112, which seems plausible)?

Hello and welcome to the forum

I only use Water Mist extinguishers on the boat.

Hello and thanks :-D I'd seen those mentioned earlier in the thread and they look loads better than the powder ones I have in each cabin which I'll replace when money and gauge pressure dictates! Do you have any fire safety kit in the engine compartment?

 

[dankilb]

Hello and welcome to the forum

I only use Water Mist extinguishers on the boat.

Sandy - do you take them off the boat when below freezing?

Returning to the freezing query/issue discussed above - interested to hear if you remove these over winter or before periods of cold weather? I have no expert or technical knowledge (beyond the manufacturers' TDS) but it was concerns over freezing damage that led me to abandon water mist. Otherwise water mist are great and I was seriously thinking of just taking them home when too cold/not needed, but in the end went for other options.

AFAIK water mist isn't widely used for auto extinguishers (as per the new post) and I wouldn't necessarily want one discharging in my engine bay!

 

[thinwater]

Just FYI for any US sailors.

The USCG just adopted NFPA 10 for portable fire extinguishers, which I believe is also in the IFC. Starting 4-20-2022:

• Portable fire extinguishers cannot be more than 12 years old. Period.
• Portable fire extinguishers not in plain view (in cabinets etc.) must be identified with a conspicuous label on the outside. Not a cute little brass plaque or small type.
• Portable fire extinguishers must be mounted in brackets.

 

[KompetentKrew]

AFAIK water mist isn't widely used for auto extinguishers (as per the new post) and I wouldn't necessarily want one discharging in my engine bay!

Yes, I agree.

The water mist extinguishers really appeal to me, but I think it'd prefer any inert gas (even CO2) for the engine bay.

 

[[70521]]

Sandy - do you take them off the boat when below freezing?

AFAIK water mist isn't widely used for auto extinguishers (as per the new post) and I wouldn't necessarily want one discharging in my engine bay!

I don't take them off the boat, but she is in Cornwall and frost is rare as hens teeth.

I'd be interested to hear why you would not want to discharge one in the engine bay?

Water Mist starves a fire of O², cools a hot surface and can be used on ordinary combustible fires, flammable liquids and gases, and electrical fires. It does not leave you blind and gasping for breath in a confined space or months cleaning up dry powder, or dead due to CO² poising.

 

[Sailingsaves]

What do people regard as sensible for a 28ft yacht, diesel engine, chinasplutter heater, gas stove.
For coastal cruising if that makes any difference.

I think a fire blanket near, but not 'too near' the stove is a given.

It's easy to think: sod it, go large, but maybe the practicalities of mounting the things where they are accessible are more important than a powerful extinguisher you might have to take risks to get to?
So , maybe it needs to fit near the companionway, so can be grabbed on the way out or from the cockpit?
A second unit in the cockpit locker where the fuel tank and heater are?

Your thoughts please?

Sarabande knows the answer and can prove it... mist water is the answer...cools and extinguishes... proven.

 

[Plum]

Sarabande knows the answer and can prove it... mist water is the answer...cools and extinguishes... proven.

There is no doubt about the extinguishing performance of water mist, the issue for me is being able to store them below freezing.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[Mudisox]

If there's a fire onboard my boat,I don't care what type of fire extinguisher so long as it can put it out.
Messy powder, not a problem clean it up,
Co2 - I will be heading for the outside once it is extinguished,
water- plenty of times water gets into the boat, I even use it to clean the place,
Fire blankets - last for ever so don't need replacing for Insurance purposes.

 

[BabaYaga]

There is no doubt about the extinguishing performance of water mist

My impression is that the extinguishing performance of water mist is rather limited, especially on B fires (fuel etc), compared to other technologies, judging by their ratings.
I tried to make a comparison a while ago in this thread:
Help specifying fire extinguishers (powder vs. foam/CO2/water mist)

 

[dankilb]

I don't take them off the boat, but she is in Cornwall and frost is rare as hens teeth.

Fair enough. We’re in NW/Irish Sea and so recognise that freezing conditions - when factoring water temps - aren’t that likely in the cabin. With more people remote monitoring/data logging, perhaps some will have definitive evidence from recent years?

But our boat has been a yard queen and with more jobs planned, the time spent out of the water justified the freeze-proof Firexos.

I'd be interested to hear why you would not want to discharge one in the engine bay?

No specific reason, beyond the principle that the engine is a giant air pump and, in such a confined space, I’d be concerned about it hoovering the contents of the extinguisher. Plus it wouldn’t take much for it to get into the area with our charger/inverter and other electrics.

Don’t doubt it’d be safe and effective, could just ruin your day in the case of an accidental discharge.

I’d be more comfortable with water mist or AFFF extinguishers with a remote discharge handle (like used in motorsports), rather than full auto.

Presumably with gas auto extinguishers you can carry on your way if one accidentally goes off? (Assuming the area is ventilated and people kept away)

 

[Northern Star]

35 ft and I have two 1kg powder and a fire blanket in the cabin and an automatic inert gas one in the engine bay.

 

[Boater Sam]

A big emission of steam in an engine box will stop the engine so water mist will do the same.
I would prefer this to powder which is difficult to clean up and corrodes aluminium castings.

 

[dankilb]

A big emission of steam in an engine box will stop the engine so water mist will do the same.
I would prefer this to powder which is difficult to clean up and corrodes aluminium castings.

Agreed definitely better than powder.

Actually seems a moot point, as a Google search doesn’t indicate any auto water mist products. Maybe the industry knows better, or maybe it’s coming in the future?

Firexo seems to be a water mist plus proprietary additives and apparently they’re R&Ding motorsport and auto options (it’s an obvious, if not massive, sector to develop).

 

[[70521]]

Messy powder, not a problem clean it up,

Try using one in the saloon! Seeing and breathing will be your biggest issue - I have and it's not nice. Cleaning will be the least of your worries.

Co2 - I will be heading for the outside once it is extinguished,

CO² is for electrical fires. What about all that lovely wood/GRP that will be burning and will continue to burn.

water- plenty of times water gets into the boat, I even use it to clean the place,

Good for all that lovely wood/GRP but rubbish on gas or electricals - lets hope your bucket has not melted.

Fire blankets - last for ever so don't need replacing for Insurance purposes.

Good for clothing fires or chip pans, but very little else.

I've spent some time with Devon and Somerset Fire and Rescue using fire extinguishers in their 'hot room'. I learnt a lot about fire in there.