MapisM
Well-Known Member
Bearing in mind what I said previously, they might not want to see that disclosed on a public webpage...
finance co. want original bill of sale
- Thread starter grumpyoldman
- Start date
ari
Well-Known Member
Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but your suggestion seemed to be faking the photocopies and passing them off as real. Perhaps I'm naive, but I find it hard to believe that 'the legal route' involved a solicitor saying 'no problem mate, I'll fire up the scanner and photoshop'.
And if there is a legal route to Part One without the required original Bills of Sale, I'd be interested to hear it.
And if there is a legal route to Part One without the required original Bills of Sale, I'd be interested to hear it.
Whitelighter
Well-Known Member
It's all about direct negotiation with the registry
My boat dies not have original BoS yet my legal team(the ones I recommended to the OP) were able to get sufficient alternative proof that we achieved P1 registration.
No phtocopying or fraud involved.
My boat dies not have original BoS yet my legal team(the ones I recommended to the OP) were able to get sufficient alternative proof that we achieved P1 registration.
No phtocopying or fraud involved.
ari
Well-Known Member
Brilliant, thanks Whitelighter. That's all I wanted to know. 
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
I believe that Mapism may be referring to the situation I mentioned above when I bought a boat in Germany. I bought the boat on the basis that I wanted to re-register it in the UK and I told the broker (Schmidt) that I needed originals of all bills of sale between previous owners in order to do that. After I paid for the boat I was actually presented with BoSs that were clearly photocopies and not originals (big lesson learnt there for the future) and which I found that the UK Registry would not accept as proof of the ownership chain. The broker who sold me the boat refused to help any further so I employed Ward & McKenzie who engaged a marine lawyor in Germany on my behalf. One of W & M's legal people travelled to Germany and arranged for the German lawyor to visit the 2 previous owners of the boat and in their presence certify that the photocopies of the BoSs were valid copies of the original. Now at the time I didnt care a stuff about the legal semantics of that, only that those certified copies were acceptable to the UK Registry which they were.
ari
Well-Known Member
If so, why would it be a problem to say so? You just have...
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Its not a problem for me at all. Its just that some on here have taken the view in the past when I've related this story that certifying a photocopy to be a true copy of the original is somehow bogus because nobody was present to witness the actual photocopying of the original. As I said, I didnt give a toss and the only thing that I cared about was that the UK Registry accepted it
petem
Well-Known Member
Something that I've occasionally pondered is whether you can only have one original of a document. Let's say I buy a 10 year old boat and the original VAT invoice is missing. However I know who the supplying dealer was and by a stroke of luck they're still in business. What's to prevent them from re-printing the original VAT invoice? Is this legally still a copy (despite there being no 'copying' involved)?
Regardless, it would be very easy to pass it off as an original.....
Regardless, it would be very easy to pass it off as an original.....
ari
Well-Known Member
Boat dealers are regularly asked for (and supply) copies or reprints of VAT invoices.
It's not a title document so it doesn't matter (and according to many on here is an irrelevance in any case).
It's not a title document so it doesn't matter (and according to many on here is an irrelevance in any case).
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Essentially, yes - though the faking might be a bit more sophisticated than "firing up the scanner", but that doesn't make it less fake anyway.
In fact, strictly from a legal viewpoint, even the validity of the scenario Deleted User described in reply to your question is debatable to say the least.
Though obviously he couldn't care less, as long as it worked - and rightly so!
For comparison, I have recently seen an authenticated copy of an invoice issued by Ferretti 25 years ago (*)
The owner of the boat has been able to get in touch with the person who back in the days was the company administrator, and asked him an authenticated copy.
That chap (one of the brothers who established the company, no less) after digging into the company archives, found the invoice - by sheer luck, since after 10 years there's no obligation to keep any accounting doc, at least here in IT, and made a notarized copy of it.
Now, THIS is a legally valid document, which to all intents and purposes is as good as the original. Anything else is just faking.
But you can easily imagine how rare it is to be able to get such piece of paper!
Now, given the OP premises, I am very skeptic that neither him nor the best lawyers on earth have been able to do something similar in this situation - though of course I can't tell for sure...
(*) PS: mind, even if Ferretti is still in business, formally the company is not the same anymore - I've lost count of how many transformations they made since then...!
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Whitelighter
Well-Known Member
I can vouch for the fact that current Ferretti have no interest for models produced pre-2002
KINGFISHER 9
Well-Known Member
I've never had finance on a boat so have no idea how it works ... maybe you should try another finance company that doesn't require an original Bill of Sale.
