Fibreglassing tips for a good finish?

prv

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I've done a fair bit of GRP work on Kindred Spirit and Ariam over the last few years, so I'm quite comfortable with the basics. However, I have a challenging job coming up and I thought I'd see if there's a cunning wheeze I'm not aware of.

The previous owner had some largeish cockpit speakers installed - maybe 8" diameter. Unfortunately they were put in the inside of the coamings, effectively the "seat backs" for the cockpit benches, and quite vulnerable to damage. The ones in place when we bought the boat were comprehensively smashed, I replaced them (trying to pick a low-profile type without easily-damaged design features), and after a season and a half taking reasonable care both were broken again. I think the only solution is to remove them and glass up the holes. I'll then experiment with transducer-type speakers mounted on the back, but since we rarely use the stereo anyway, even if those don't work it will still have been worth removing the old ones.

So, I need to fill two large holes in a flat expanse of GRP, with no useful access to the back (I can get a couple of fingers to it, but that's all), in a position that will be highly visible most of the time we're using the boat. The basic mechanics of filling the hole hold no fears, but I suspect it's going to be bloody difficult to get a good finish on the gelcoat.

My plan is to do the structural filling first, let that cure to give a solid base to build from, and then try to fill the remaining depression. I guess I can either try to mould a flat surface directly with gelcoat and a smooth sheet, or daub on flowcoat deliberately overthickness and then sand back to level. If I had access from the back I'd definitely be going the smooth sheet route, pressing a sheet of slightly flexible plastic over the surface and then painting gel onto it from the inside. But I can't do that. So the nearest maybe would be to pre-paint the sheet (and apply plenty to the depression as well) and then press it down into place. Trying to press a sheet onto wet gel has never worked well for me, always leaving bubbles, hence the thought of painting a layer on first, which I haven't tried before. The appeal of course is that it gives a shiny finished surface more or less immediately. But I have my doubts about it working. So fill and sand it is, I guess, but that generates a lot of dust, tends (at least when I do it) to end up wavy rather than flat, and it's hard to get back to a smooth shiny finish. I thought I was done with that when I refinished the binnacle last year :(

Thoughts?

Pete
 
Hi prv

A photo of the area would be a great help. Building my f/g yacht has made me quite innovative when it comes to these tricky situations. Maybe tapering the edges of the hole, then slip a very light (bendable) piece of ply or formica inside the hole and hold it in place with self tapping screws. Wax the ply/formica then lay 3 or 4 layers of CSM.
 
For non-structural patching of holes in flat surfaces, I've sometimes laid the patch up on a piece of glass or contiboard, then trimmed to size and scarfed it in, and then gelled and polished. If structural, additional overlapping layers are needed at back.
 
Agree with making the patch first as accurately as possible. Bond some battens across the back of the inside first so your patch cannot be mounted too "deep" for strength if required. Alternatively some temporary battens extending over the edge on the face side. Much less fairing to do later. A vertical repair will sag. Probably won't get it perfect so if the holes were cut symmetrically to one another make a feature such as a transfer of some kind over the repairs in order to disguise.
 
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Graham

I've done that also but without a photo it is a bit hard to say which way to go. If it is structural "with no useful access to the back" then he has problems. But I don't think it is structural?
 
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Hi prv

A photo of the area would be a great help. Building my f/g yacht has made me quite innovative when it comes to these tricky situations. Maybe tapering the edges of the hole, then slip a very light (bendable) piece of ply or formica inside the hole and hold it in place with self tapping screws. Wax the ply/formica then lay 3 or 4 layers of CSM.

Yes, that does the "structural" filling (to answer another question, it's not structural as in holding the boat together, but the repair needs to be strong enough for cockpit rough-and-tumble on a breezy day). I have no worries about that. It's getting a smooth almost-unnoticeable gelcoat repair on top of it that I'm concerned about.

Pete
 
Thanks for the other suggestions. Especially NimbusGB - my holes are a bit smaller, and round, but otherwise the situation is quite similar. Your photos show that what I want is possible, just remains to be seen whether my skill is up to it :)

Pete
 
To put a backing pad in for the repair cut an oval shaped (so you can put it in from the front and turn it to rest on the back of the existing grp) piece of ply or whatever you're happy using. Drill a hole in the middle and put some line or a bit of wire in.
Put the piece in through the hole, use whatever adhesive you are using (a grp repair paste with glass fibres in or a proper grp adhesive paste from ECF).
Pull the line to bring the backing piece to where you want it and secure.
When the adhesive is cured chop off the line. If you are going down the "lay-up some grp to stick in" route you can dab and stick them onto the panels you have just stuck in. Like tiling this allows you to get them perfectly aligned.
Then just fill and fair the edges.

It's obviously not structural as it's had holes in for some while.
 
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Not an expert in GRP repairs myself but what would concern me would be matching then gelcoat colour and the fading over time.

Due to my lack of expertise I would look at replacing the speakers with maybe suitable sized screw in access hatches with possible inner frames for small item storage.
 
Not an expert in GRP repairs myself but what would concern me would be matching then gelcoat colour and the fading over time.

Due to my lack of expertise I would look at replacing the speakers with maybe suitable sized screw in access hatches with possible inner frames for small item storage.

+1
I was thinking some sort of handy open locker.
 
Roger Hi!!

He probably wouldn't use gelcoat but two pot polyurethane paint to finish it off. If he took a piece of the existing f/g to the paint supplier they could computer match the colour. That would allow for the fading from the original colour. I would paint the full panel and blend it in on the corners then I'm sure you wouldn't notice the repair.
 
I was thinking some sort of handy open locker.

There isn't really the depth behind for anything worthwhile, and the hole crosses part of the structure of the existing coaming lockers. A smooth reinstatement of the original backrest profile is the only sensible outcome.

I don't need the repair to be undetectable, just not glaringly obvious.

Pete
 
I would paint the full panel and blend it in on the corners then I'm sure you wouldn't notice the repair.

Unfortunately, being a production-moulded GRP cockpit, there isn't really a well-defined "panel" as such. It's all just a series of curves. If I started painting on the sides and didn't want to leave an obvious edge, I'd have to paint the whole cockpit and probably the aft cabin top as well, and I don't want to do that.

I'm going to feather the edges of the hole, which will make it a larger and less regular shape, do the patch, then fill (slightly over-fill) the remaining depression with flowcoat and then blend it in to the existing gel by sanding. I might try a bit more polishing than I've done in the past.

Pete
 
From my experience you were right first time. Fill. Sand. Fill. Sand.
Repeat a lot.

Lots of patience but I've managed a totally invisible repair in the past...

That's how are least one pro did it on my old boat. The difference is practice and experience means they get there faster.
 
Not exactly comfortable for the middle of a seat-back :)

Pete

Perhaps not, but I'm guessing the original intrusion of the speaker grille was tolerable? Could the speakers be mounted behind the panel so that the intrusion of the grille was minimised?
 
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