Female Yacht Owners

[dgadee]

Bingo! Give that man a biscuit!

And, to Steve Yates, since you asked so courteously - long story, but it has to do with recognition given to certain clubs (ipso facto - old established clubs) for the enormous contribution their members made to the manning of coastal forces (dangerous work) in the two world wars. Other organisations (e.g Cruising Association, Little Ship Club) for contributions to our national security through services to small boat seamanship. The history of the different ensigns in general goes much further back, of course.

This dismal inverted snobbery pops up without fail on this forum whenever (and it is surprisingly often) the subject of ensigns is mentioned for any reason. I haven't seem the "fake" variant before, though. This codswallop seems to be a purely internet phenomen. Whatever the subject of the thread, mention a blue ensign and off we go!

Odd that so many countries manage to do without these social/service distinctions.

 

[BobnLesley]

I don’t think anyone has explained why someone would want to nor why someone who could qualify in some circumstances would be reluctant to...

For several years we were entitled to fly a defaced blue ensign but chose to forego the opportunity: Very early in our cruising years I was tasked (in a bar obviously) by a multinational group of yotties to explain how/why some UK yachts had blue ensigns; a couple had even spotted that there were occasional white ones too. Fifteen minutes later a Dutch chap nodded in (I hope) understanding and replied: "So it isn't just because the blue ones aren't so friendly?" I'd assumed he was joking, until smiles and nods of agreement from the others, indicated that this perception was widespread; I recalled that conversation when I received the letter advising me of the benefits of buying and flying my own.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Odd that so many countries manage to do without these social/service distinctions.

They don’t do without them. We are as unaware of theirs as much as they are unaware of ours. Foreigners know the Royal family, and members if the house of Lords are posh. I doubt they spare much of a though about who we think is posh.

 

[BobnLesley]

...We did belong to a club which had a ladies helm race , I understand it came into being as a result of the number of times the ladies had to take charge of their boats the morning after a successful rally.

I discovered early that I didn't need a skin full of beer to be a poor second to Lesley when it came to helming, unless of course it was raining. Then again, perhaps she is a better weather watcher too? Les has a gift for being at the bottom of the companionway steps as the first raindrops begin to fall, often with my rain jacket already in hand: "There's no point us both getting wet and as you're already up there...

 

[awol]

Thanks to Wiki for the folowing list of clubs - some actually allow lady members - allowed to wear undefaced blue ensigns with the appropriate warrant, of course. There is a longer list of clubs allowed to wear defaced blues and some have the right to a defaced red.

British-registered (Part 1 or Part 3) yachts belonging to members of the following yacht clubs:

• Hornet Services Sailing Club
• Royal Naval Club and Royal Albert Yacht Club
• Royal Brighton Yacht Club, Victoria
• Royal Cinque Ports Yacht Club
• Royal Cruising Club
• Royal Dorset Yacht Club
• Royal Engineer Yacht Club
• Royal Geelong Yacht Club, Victoria
• Royal Gourock Yacht Club
• Royal Highland Yacht Club
• Royal Marines Sailing Club
• Royal Melbourne Yacht Squadron, Victoria
• Royal Motor Yacht Club
• Royal Naval Sailing Association
• Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve Yacht Club
• Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron
• Royal Perth Yacht Club, Western Australia
• Royal Northern and Clyde Yacht Club
• Royal Port Nicholson Yacht Club, New Zealand
• Royal Queensland Yacht Squadron
• Royal Scottish Motor Yacht Club
• Royal Solent Yacht Club
• Royal South Australia Yacht Squadron
• Royal Southern Yacht Club
• Royal Sydney Yacht Squadron, New South Wales
• Royal Temple Yacht Club
• Royal Thames Yacht Club
• Royal Victorian Motor Yacht Club
• Royal Welsh Yacht Club
• Royal Western Yacht Club of England
• Royal Western Yacht Club of Scotland
• Royal Yacht Club of Tasmania
• Royal Yacht Club of Victoria
• Sussex Motor Yacht Club

 

[ylop]

Neither has anyone produced an explanation of why it matters if some people fly blue ones. Apart from ‘I’ve got this massive chip on my shoulder about supposedly posh people’. The general public probably view all of us as posh, over privileged rich buggers, and would laugh at this silly division.

Well if you look back to where this topic enterred this thread it was because a poster couldn’t let his wife be joint owner because he’d have to forego his blue ensign (he later clarified his wife doesn’t really like sailing either). So obviously it matters to some. I assume you can understand that many people who have a red ensign look on bemused at those who fly a blue one as though they have some degree of superiority or special entitlement. It is helpful for the rest of us - we know that that person thinks they are special whether that be because they paid to join a club or because they serve(d) in the navy etc.

do any other countries have different ensigns for different types of people? None that I can think of - although I also can’t think of any that don’t use their national flag as their ensign. Why do we have a red ensign rather than simple a Union flag?

 

[awol]

do any other countries have different ensigns for different types of people? None that I can think of - although I also can’t think of any that don’t use their national flag as their ensign. Why do we have a red ensign rather than simple a Union flag?

Yes or anywaay the Septics do ......

 

[Poignard]

Odd that so many countries manage to do without these social/service distinctions.

Jesus wept!

I am no more distinct from you because I was in the Royal Navy than for any other reason.

If you want to find something really important that distinguishes us you might think about why you have a chip on your shoulder and I don't.

?

 

[Poignard]

Odd that so many countries manage to do without these social/service distinctions.

Do they? How do you know?

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Well if you look back to where this topic enterred this thread it was because a poster couldn’t let his wife be joint owner because he’d have to forego his blue ensign (he later clarified his wife doesn’t really like sailing either). So obviously it matters to some. I assume you can understand that many people who have a red ensign look on bemused at those who fly a blue one as though they have some degree of superiority or special entitlement. It is helpful for the rest of us - we know that that person thinks they are special whether that be because they paid to join a club or because they serve(d) in the navy etc.

do any other countries have different ensigns for different types of people? None that I can think of - although I also can’t think of any that don’t use their national flag as their ensign. Why do we have a red ensign rather than simple a Union flag?

The really exasperating part of all this is that you make the leap that I think I’m special. I assure you that flying a blue ensign engenders no such feelings. We are as friendly as anyone you are likely to meet, unpretentious, and are as likely to catch your lines as any lesser being who only flies the red. Our club has normal, mortal people as members, apart from the PRO who is a well known pillock.

 

[ylop]

Bingo! Give that man a biscuit!

And, to Steve Yates, since you asked so courteously - long story, but it has to do with recognition given to certain clubs (ipso facto - old established clubs) for the enormous contribution their members made to the manning of coastal forces (dangerous work) in the two world wars. Other organisations (e.g Cruising Association, Little Ship Club) for contributions to our national security through services to small boat seamanship. The history of the different ensigns in general goes much further back, of course.

it may be true of some that they were granted it as a thank you after the wars (whether there is really any logic to their continued use by people who were not born during the war maybe a point to ponder) but many of the Royal yacht clubs were using blue ensigns long before the First World War. Are they really doing anything special in 2022 that justifies their members waving a special flag. But as you might gather I’m not a big fan of flags - they are all too often used as way of reinforcing tribalism and division.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

it may be true of some that they were granted it as a thank you after the wars (whether there is really any logic to their continued use by people who were not born during the war maybe a point to ponder) but many of the Royal yacht clubs were using blue ensigns long before the First World War. Are they really doing anything special in 2022 that justifies their members waving a special flag. But as you might gather I’m not a big fan of flags - they are all too often used as way of reinforcing tribalism and division.

Where do you want to draw the line. I’ve been under fire, am I, in your book, entitled? What about other ex forces people, there are lors.

 

[Poignard]

If people object to the colour of someone's ensign, why don't they tell its owner so directly?

Much more fun than bleating here.

If anyone came along to my boat and said he objected to the look of my ensign, or the cut of my jib, or whatever was eating away at his tiny mind, I can think of few things I would enjoy more than a brief chat about it. And it would be brief!

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Something along the lines of ‘go forth snd multiply’ would be my answer

 

[awol]

One of the drivers for being a member of my yacht club (less than 100m from my childhood home when I first joined) is to go racing. Of course, I don't actually get to prove my place in the hierarchy while racing 'cos the ensign isn't worn during the race.

 

[doug748]

To me the gist of it is that service people (aka navy) can wear a blue ensign, making it somewhat exclusive. Rich people get jealous of this and so created yacht clubs they can join without actually serving the country. These blue ensigns are defaced so as to highlight their fake status.

A bit harsh though I probably agree, its a shame things developed quite the way they did. I do appreciate the modest defaced ensigns where club members were involved in heroic actions in small boats, would be sad to lose those. The blue for ex naval people is fine by me. However It grates a bit when some suburban, well heeled character sports an ensign tricked out like a petticoat for no significant reason.

On balance though, it's part of our culture, is borne out of a long maritime tradition and does little harm...



I once cruised with three chums flying Blue ensigns and me with my modest Red. At one stop I saw a fellow yachtsman looking at the boats and chatted to him later. We had a beer and he said to me - and this is perfectly true -

" I noticed your friends had Blue flags and you had the Red...................................We ( he said, looking at his wife ) thought that perhaps you were a servant"

?

 

[ylop]

N

The really exasperating part of all this is that you make the leap that I think I’m special. I assure you that flying a blue ensign engenders no such feelings. We are as friendly as anyone you are likely to meet, unpretentious, and are as likely to catch your lines as any lesser being who only flies the red. Our club has normal, mortal people as members, apart from the PRO who is a well known pillock.

Take a proper hard look at yourself - you are flying a special ensign. You could perfectly legitimately not bother - and fly a red one the same as “normal” people - but you CHOOSE to fly a public display that says you are different. Why do you do that?
The whole concept of having different ensigns is an anachronism that does nothing to welcome different people from different backgrounds to yachting. Given the topic of this thread I suspect it simply reinforces the stereotype of sailing as being a sport / hobby for stuffy people obsessed with rules - and usually those people are men.

and when the peculiarness of this is pointed out the response of two of the blue ensign flyers is not “I’d welcome you aboard to discuss the benefits of flying a blue ensign” it’s to essentially say they will reply with abuse. Really winning the argument with logic there!

 

[Lightwave395]

So what's the penalty for flying a blue ensign if you're not quaiified / authorised / posh enough ? Will you be blown out of the water if you pass an RN ship (or do they not give a toss ? )

 

[Poignard]

One of the drivers for being a member of my yacht club (less than 100m from my childhood home when I first joined) is to go racing. Of course, I don't actually get to prove my place in the hierarchy while racing 'cos the ensign isn't worn during the race.

The only hierarchy that counts then is who wins!

 

[ylop]

Awol - interesting about the US one. I see that it’s only flown in US territorial waters. Am I right in thinking British sailors fly their various flavours of ensign in foreign waters too?