Fastnet 79 Storm tactics

Daydream believer

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Can someone who has read any books or has seen the report or an analysis of heavy weather tactics in the race please help
i seem to recall that some yachts just ran under bare poles ( I knew the crew of one boat that did this !), some hove too

I understood that some found it better to reduce as much sail as possible & sail up wind a bit keeping the nose into the waves as much as possible
( I am sure it was recorded that quite a few boats did this)
Am i right with the last tactic? -did some actually do this due to inability to heave too?
i have recently been told that I am wrong
 

Pinnacle

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Can someone who has read any books or has seen the report or an analysis of heavy weather tactics in the race please help
i seem to recall that some yachts just ran under bare poles ( I knew the crew of one boat that did this !), some hove too Some did

I understood that some found it better to reduce as much sail as possible & sail up wind a bit keeping the nose into the waves as much as possible We used a storm jib with the main tied to the boom which was lashed down into the cockpit. We tried to sail beam on. We we averaging about 9kts. We felt it was better to keep way on because that way you could try (but not always succeed) in avoiding the very biggest waves.
( I am sure it was recorded that quite a few boats did this)
Am i right with the last tactic? -did some actually do this due to inability to heave too?
i have recently been told that I am wrong

I'm not saying what we did was better that the methods others adopted - it's just what we did.
 

SimonJ

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I can tell you what we actually did. Not sure what the books say!
Boat: OOD 34
Set a storm jib(with difficulty) tried downwind but it was lethal with several knock downs. We chartered, broached, surfed etc far too fast. What worked best for us was heading about 70-80 degrees into the wind.
Good to ask now while we remember and are still around to talk about it!!
 

Pete7

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PBO or Yachting Monthly produced a reivew of the lessons learnt for the 10th anniversary of the 79 race. I have a copy on board from the previous owner and it is quite comprehensive with things like locking wash boards that can be locked in place from both inside and outside etc.

I did suggest to them they produce a revised version for the 30th anniversary but haven't seen anything.

Pete
 

Seajet

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Daydream believer,

have a read of ' Heavy Weather Sailing ' and ' Left For Dead ' - both are excellent books involving the '79 Fastnet and storm tactics in general - seems the general lesson is that lying ahull or heaving to works up to F8-9, but in real survival conditions one needs to actively steer and slalom down the waves - not so bad with a big crew of ' racing gorrilas ' but a real problem if sailing with an inexperienced girlfriend / wife as a lot of us do, so apart from doing my best to avoid such conditions I have a powerful autopilot which might help a little.

Fatigue is the killer, not rocks, fog or big waves; fatigue is the one that gets people into the XXXX !
 

macd

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From memory, the subsequent inquiry found that 'active' tactics were more helpful than passive tactics such as heaving to or, particularly, lying a-hull, which invited knock-downs from very large breaking waves. One of the crueller ironies of the race was that the faster (larger) boats had passed the worst of the storm and the worst area of seas (the Ladabi Bank, if that's how it's spelled), so the slower, smaller boats endured the worst conditions. Obviously I'd defer wholly to Pinnacle and SimonJ's experience, but the violent shift in wind direction as the cold front flew through created hugely confused seas which came at crews from all directions, making steering a course to the waves all the more difficult.
 

jwilson

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Same year as 79 Fastnet but earlier and in a different place (off Iceland) found storm jib trying to keep bows into biggest breakers worked when ahull and running bare poles spectacularly failed. Spectacular is swimming alongside hull looking at keel in the air. More and more "active sailing" is being preferred to old ideas of ahull, hove to etc. - certainly for most modern yachts as opposed to big pilot cutters and suchlike.
 

Swanrad2

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Daydream believer,

have a read of ' Heavy Weather Sailing ' and ' Left For Dead ' - both are excellent books involving the '79 Fastnet and storm tactics in general - seems the general lesson is that lying ahull or heaving to works up to F8-9, but in real survival conditions one needs to actively steer and slalom down the waves - not so bad with a big crew of ' racing gorrilas ' but a real problem if sailing with an inexperienced girlfriend / wife as a lot of us do, so apart from doing my best to avoid such conditions I have a powerful autopilot which might help a little.

Fatigue is the killer, not rocks, fog or big waves; fatigue is the one that gets people into the XXXX !

It has been a while since I read 'Heavy Weather Sailing' - the book is hard work in itself, I found - but I seem to remember it reached the conclusion that the largest issue was the design of the race yachts. I think I remember a paragraph saying that several cruising yachts passing through the area reported simply "heavy weather, no damage" (para-phrase sorry).

Lightly constructed, poorly rigged yachts pressing on with a race course for too long? Not my view before anyone jumps on me as I wasn't there!
 
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Following the Fastnet the USCG funded an investigation into boat safety. I think its a better analysis than the book.

As I understand it , sailing downwind under bare poles is safest but you have to be slowed right down by a sea anchor or drogue from the stern. Surfing down a big wave is not a good idea and trying to go into the wave is not possible when the wave are cresting. These knock you beam on then the next one rolls you.

The report is here
http://www.jordanseriesdrogue.com/pdf/droguecoastguardreport.pdf

A lot of boats got into problems because the washboards were lost overboard. I now have mine secured with a line from inside the cabin.

I had to use a parachute anchor once and after 24 hours it was destroyed by the loads. Luckily the storm had passed by then. I now have three builders bags in series as my drogue. They are much stronger than the para anchor I had.
 

Seajet

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Long before 1979, ' Colin Archer ' type heavy double enders were being lost, a classic example being Tzu Hang as recounted in ' Once Is Enough '.

These were typically boats thought ' bullet proof ' and sailed by husband & wife crews who didn't really have much option than lying ahull, or running under bare poles streaming warps as long as their energy lasted.

When the 1979 Fastnet tragedy happened, a lot of publicity was given to ' wide beam, lightly ballasted racing yachts ' especially the then new OOD34, unfairly in my view.

The critiscism was that these boats were stable inverted, so stayed that way.

Maybe, I haven't tried it ta very much but how would a boat be stable in any attitude in such wind & waves ?

I'd think the ballast - hung out on an extended deep keel - might come into effect rather quickly, even if it's not a 50% ratio of the overall displacement as Colin Archer fans like.

There are reasons why modern Open 60's etc can race around Cape Horn, while tough traditional boats get sunk; light weight and rudder authority, and someone fit enough to actively helm the boat.

As well as the powerful autopilot I'd recommend self-heating meals - Amazon is a good source, not cheap or big portions but a potential life saver for the First Aid kit - and flasks of soup.
 

Keen_Ed

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There are reasons why modern Open 60's etc can race around Cape Horn, while tough traditional boats get sunk; light weight and rudder authority, and someone fit enough to actively helm the boat.

Plus sufficient internet access for forecasts and fast enough boats to be able to get out of the way of the worst weather.
 

2nd_apprentice

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Plus sufficient internet access for forecasts and fast enough boats to be able to get out of the way of the worst weather.

That wasn't an issue during the Fastnet race. The French correctly predicted a F10 but the Met Office forecasted a F8-9 which most sailors participating felt comfortable with AIU. This was a race after all! What surprised me most when reading Left for Dead was the fact that they considered the cockpit to be the safest place to be during a storm.
 

Keen_Ed

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PBO or Yachting Monthly produced a reivew of the lessons learnt for the 10th anniversary of the 79 race. I have a copy on board from the previous owner and it is quite comprehensive with things like locking wash boards that can be locked in place from both inside and outside etc.

Many of the recommendations like that made it into the Offshore Special Regulations, to be found on the ISAF website heres
http://www.sailing.org/documents/offshorespecialregs/index.php

Categories are basically: Cat 0 = around the world. Cat 1 - across oceans. Cat 2 - across seas (Fastnet race is cat 2), Cat 3 -across the channel, Cat 4 - inshore/daysailing.
 

alant

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Many of the recommendations like that made it into the Offshore Special Regulations, to be found on the ISAF website heres
http://www.sailing.org/documents/offshorespecialregs/index.php

Categories are basically: Cat 0 = around the world. Cat 1 - across oceans. Cat 2 - across seas (Fastnet race is cat 2), Cat 3 -across the channel, Cat 4 - inshore/daysailing.

Sobering text in view of previous threads on Skipper responsibility!

"1.02 Responsibility of Person in Charge
1.02.1 The safety of a yacht and her crew is the sole and inescapable
responsibility of the person in charge who must do his best to ensure
that the yacht is fully found, thoroughly seaworthy and manned by an
experienced crew who have undergone appropriate training and are
physically fit to face bad weather. He must be satisfied as to the
soundness of hull, spars, rigging, sails and all gear. He must ensure
that all safety equipment is properly maintained and stowed and that
the crew know where it is kept and how it is to be used. He shall also
nominate a person to take over the responsibilities of the Person in
Charge in the event of his incapacitation.
**
1.02.2 Neither the establishment of these Special Regulations, their use by race
organizers, nor the inspection of a yacht under these Special Regulations in
any way limits or reduces the complete and unlimited responsibility of the person in charge."
 

boguing

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My recollections include:-

The Wolfson Unit at Soton Uni were commissioned to run tank tests to investigate modern yacht performance in breaking waves. Their report featured heavily in the magazines at the time.

Some fatalities were crew that had left yachts for liferafts. I'm not sure, but I don't recall that any yachts actually sank?

Yes, the OOD 34 did get bad press, and I agree not entirely fairly.

Yachts and crews were subsequently obliged to make 'qualifying' passages.

RORC/ORC regs were significantly increased, but very sensibly. In fact all of the reactions were probably far more pragmatic than they would have been today.

I had an 'interesting' time ashore. I worked for Oyster, and all of my superiors just went off to 'do the Fastnet'. That left me in charge of the whole company at age twenty. But only for the Monday and Tuesday. Turned out a little longer than that. Dealing with the press who had reports of fatalities from our boats was a very rapid lesson (handled very well in hindsight - never really thought about it!). What was very unsettling was that it was our conservatively built 37s having the problems. A fair number of the fatalities did turn out to be from our boats. Not nice.

One of our Oyster 39 cruising ketches (Morningtown) was acting as RORC radio relay and was right in the thick of it. No problems as far as I remember, although Rodney Hill was exactly the right skipper to be there and must take huge credit for his part.

I had no word from the entire board of directors on Oystercatcher '79 (Stephen Jones 41) - one of the first and largest foam sandwich boats that we had only just finished. I was pretty sure that it would not be good news. As it turned out, they had mainly lain a-hull, and the only damage was a lee screen ring that pulled out and dumped the MD unceremoniously.
 

LittleSister

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When the 1979 Fastnet tragedy happened, a lot of publicity was given to ' wide beam, lightly ballasted racing yachts ' especially the then new OOD34, unfairly in my view.

The critiscism was that these boats were stable inverted, so stayed that way.

I seem to recall it wasn't just about inverted stability, but also other factors. The one that sticks in my mind was the suggestion that the motion of such boats in those conditions was so fast and violent it tired and injured the crew more than more traditional boats - the boat could take it but the crew was likely to be depleted by it.

(I would emphasise I wasn't there, don't know whether it is true, and am not knocking such boats. Just interested in the experiences at the time, how the issues were perceived, and how those perceptions might have since changed or perhaps been forgotten.)
 

William_H

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Many of the recommendations like that made it into the Offshore Special Regulations, to be found on the ISAF website heres
http://www.sailing.org/documents/offshorespecialregs/index.php

Categories are basically: Cat 0 = around the world. Cat 1 - across oceans. Cat 2 - across seas (Fastnet race is cat 2), Cat 3 -across the channel, Cat 4 - inshore/daysailing.

I have been obliged to fit locking devices to my little trailer sailer 21ft to meet requirements for Cat 5 for night races on Swan River. One latch on the front hatch has a handle on both sides and simply moves the handle on the inside to pass under the deck at the front of the hatch. This is in addition to tyhe security latch on the inside which is left open when sailing. This latch has proved useful as foredeck crew can change jibs (hank on) but leave hatch locked all from outside.
The main hatch wash boards have a saddle under the bridge deck and a clam cleat on wash board to hold it in place which csan be released from outside via the sliding top part. The sliding top part has a handle ona shaft through the frame for the wash boards which can be turned so a lever on the inside hooks inside the lip of the top sliding part
to stop it sliding forward. So all can be accessed (released) from inside or outside the boat. though I certianly don't ever expect to need them.
I did actually close the top sliding part of the main hatch last Sun while racing but that was only to stop spray getting inside in 23 knots on the nose.
Just rattling on... I spent much of the race up on the side deck ballancing the boat with an excellent guest helms lady. I was repeatedly taking pretty solid water from the bow. Indeed I had become the dodger. ( Water breaker) The thing was while only wearing tee shirt and trousers I was not cold. In fact the wind was so hot (35 degrees) it was nice to get a shower every so often. No nothing like the Fastnet of 79. just a bit to upset you winterised folks. olewill
 

Lodesman77

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The book is 'Fastnet, Force 10' by John Rousmaniere. It considers all aspects of the race and includes individual stories of several yachts.

Left for Dead is only about one boat in the race.
 

guernseyman

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The book is 'Fastnet, Force 10' by John Rousmaniere. It considers all aspects of the race and includes individual stories of several yachts.

Left for Dead is only about one boat in the race.

Rousmaniere's book is the only one of several I read that explains what was actually going on in the Fastnet that year. He had a relatively easy passage and I guess it made him curious. The book completely changed how I think about sea conditions, so that I now often try working out why the sea is like it is at any particular time.
 
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