False starts. You'll soon understand.

Re: False starts. You\'ll soon understand.

Oh, there are many! Where we are, on a river pontoon the view over the surrounding fields is wonderful, you look out the window and all life is happening, herons, ducks, cormorants (which reminds me, must get a bird book) and all sorts, including an alleged seal.
For some reason you feel more in touch with the elements as well,no house/car alarms or noisy neighbours.
No, even if we didn't go anywhere (we do) I'd like to live there.
 
Re: False starts. You\'ll soon understand.

The only part of your post that I can reply to is the liveaboard bit. A few years ago, between houses, we lived aboard our then 37' sports cruiser for the best part of four months.

It was in the summer, and we REALLY enjoyed it. Of course that was in the full knowledge that we would eventually be moving back onto dry land once the new house had been completed. Being summer, the weather was good too. I'm not sure about living aboard during our winter months, but in Gib, your winters should be kind to you.

Whatever you end up doing, I wish you the best of luck.
 
Re: False starts. You\'ll soon understand.

I live on board at the moment (since 1st of Nov 08) Monday to friday and love every moment . Its all about a comfy boat and life luxries..


Tom
 
Re: False starts. You\'ll soon understand.

Not surprised people pointed out that your budget is far too low because it is. FWIW, I spent €30k+ just keeping my boat in Majorca last year and thats a 46 footer. You refer in passing doing some charter in France. Well that's a long way from Malta and you'll spend more than your budget in fuel alone getting your boat to France from Malta and back. Then when you get to France, you could pay €1000 a week to park a 60 footer in a fancy Cote d'Azur marina during high season
The Med is full of boats whose owners thought they could pay their running costs with charter income. As has already been pointed out, it'll cost you €10k+ to get her coded plus maybe €1500 every season for local licences and extra insurance. Thats before any extra maintenance costs that arise as a result of the charter. Then as jfm points out, charter clients mostly prefer newer boats so you'll probably not get enough income to make the exercise anywhere near worthwile
I don't want to rain on your parade because I envy you if you have the time to live aboard a boat in the Med with a willing partner but IMHO, you should be thinking about other sources of income rather than using your boat for charter. It sounds like you may be a handy sort of guy so maybe look for work in local boatyards or offer your services to other boat owners in the locality? Boat owners are always on the look out for reliable local people to carry out maintenance jobs that they haven't got the time or the inclination to do themselves. As for living on a 60ft boat, it should be no problem whatsoever. There are people cruising the world in 35 footers
 
Re: False starts. You\'ll soon understand.

Hi Daka,
those two links should give him something to think about,well done, /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif regards m m 1.
 
Re: False starts. You\'ll soon understand.

Thanks but I cant take the credit for it /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

It was something I found interesting after I read it on here, not 100% sure who first posted it, could have been anyone, even you /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Here's another bit

What do you do when you have been around the world




Next time SWMBO says it getting a bit rough can we head in, I'm not going to push my luck /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif


Roger Moore might have birds asking him to take them round the world one more time but your average SWMBO gets fed up after a few hours !
 
Re: False starts. You\'ll soon understand.

Posillipo you mean which still exists but they changed wood to GRP in the late 70s www.inrizzardi.com and follow the logo

I was at there factory last year and I must say was impressed and among the best I have ever seen, they build 65 - 120 feet today Technema range, all semi custom in real terms and about 20 bpy
we have an old 2 in Malta a wooden 38 Antigua and an overbuilt GRP 42 Martinica TS

as for the Tecnomarine 62 Cobra is a lovely boat, that has a Don Shead hull one of is his first and is IMO one of the best sea keepers this designer ever built too
there is a hardtop model in Malta bought used from Italy and then developed to surface drives, I think it goes better with shafts though
the 62 in Force 6 goes like a brick, there is a few coded MCA and can be done really at a cost
they are GRP really so I dont know how you say wood... check for blisters and for the fuel tanks leak which unless modified is in the keel
timeless classic the Tecnomarine 62 Cobra really the HT version presented in 1982 was the first real open hard top
if you need anyhelp for Malta just PM it is good if we make some contact
 
Re: False starts. You\'ll soon understand.

rusty,

As a nosy raggie, not a motor boater, I followed your thread on Liveaboard and agree some folk were a bit 'blunt' but a lot of what they were saying was right.

Apart from the budget and red tape, as others have said here, I dont think the issue of pirates or your relationship are relevant to your chartering or not.

The one thing that seems to have been omitted on this thread is that you have to ask who would want to pay to stay on a 27year old boat? It would have to be tip-top condition, considering all the other options around, or an old classic. You might be reduced to day-charters only, which may or not work out - your call.
 
Re: False starts. You\'ll soon understand.

Wow, guys, you're great. I'm so glad that you can all comment constructively on the plan with the 'motorboat'. To answer a couple of questions, yes the link is the boat in question, but it goes a wee bit quicker than 30knots according to the sellers. Hopefully, that's the truth! As it happens this is well within budget. We don't know about regular costs to upgrade and maintain coding, but from various websites we've sourced all the coding to fulfill the MGN_280 for a couple of grand to suppliment what's already on board. Place in Portsmouth is waiting for us to say go on then and they'll train the two of us to skipper 12 passengers day and night up to 20 miles from safe haven (or SCV code 3) for a little under two grand each for a fortnight all inclusive fast pass course. I guess you're still a half baked skipper without experience but we're spending the whole of next year (maybe two) doing it up.
Our expectations will hope no end you see, if it doesn't do anything or go anywhere the costs will be fairly low, that is to say, affordable. And we're happy to consider chartering to 4 people roughly the same as a cheap package holiday or an eighth what boats are normally chartered for. Getting to SoF would be a once a season thing, and would be a pleasure to us, so fuel costs are not accountable, we'd do it regardless of renting it or not, and stay at anchor most of the time.
I've learned on here that staying in a popular mooring in SoF is quite expensive so probably won't be doing much of that.
Bearing in mind how cheap the boat is and the timescale to refit we should have a good job done. Not talking hundreds of thousands but, we're consulting a Coventry based firm who refit boats and used to fit out Pearl Yachts before they moved to Turkey. Our contact there is quite excited about our little project and we'll be having a lot of his influence in the boat. So, your combined advice is that the costs to just have it sitting there would be 5 to 10 thousand, due to regular upkeep and frequent repairs. Good thoughts, well heeded. We'll have owned the boat for at least one year maybe two before it actually sees the med so we'll have a better idea then how much it costs to keep floating. but 5 to 10 is a good guide???
it's great that the general concensus is that living on the boat would be good fun.
MapisM, sorry i didn't see the response straight away and now i can't find my way back there. I forgot where it was! Help!
Alf, thanks re the Baglietto - there's a couple on the internet for sale for £60 to £80 (plus cost of a full refit!). If something rally terrible comes back on this Tecnomarine we may go have a look at one of these.
The RYA do a fairly cost effective annual self cert on the SCV, £80 plus VAT a year for the five years (after the first initial test fee), and in the third year they even send a man out to test it at no extra cost.
Day charters wouldn't be ideal for us as most of the money the trip would attract would be required for fuel at 160 litres per hour at cruising, however, that's what the boat os better suited for.
You've all informed us that the costs are higher than we anticipated, thank you for that. We'll definately consider the ramifications of finding a much larger than expected bill come in, and also as advised, consider not chartering it at all. Does, as it was pointed out to us, the profit from chartering outweigh the costs to charter it? Is that side of it worth it or should be go back to just buying it so we can experience everything you guys do without having to worry about, will we make enough to pay for the extra insurance, coding, testing? We're getting the licences anyway as i think we'd be a little foolhardy being inexperienced to attempt this sort of thing without experience or qualification! Maybe we could gaurantee keeping the costs down by just not renting it out to start with. Harsh lesson to learn but maybe a valuable one. It's just that i don't want to spend the rest of my life thinking what if!
 
Re: False starts. You\'ll soon understand.

Why not run half day trips for holidaymakers staying in Malta, put a sign on the back of the boat when it's in port, and post some flyers in tourist restaurants. The idea of taking it to France to charter is a non starter, you wont find any clients to spend a week on a 30 year old boat in SoF, and it'll cost you more than £5k in fuel to get there and back.

Good luck, hope it works out for you
 
Re: False starts. You\'ll soon understand.

Hi Rusty,
Sorry I havn't read all of your posts so please if the subjects have been raised then I appologise beforehand.

A couple of points I would like to offer:

When we bought our boat it was because we wanted a boat & not a buisness, I think you need to understand that many people on here are on the same wavelength with this.
In short, the boat is as far from work as you can get.

In a couple of your posts you maintain that the income is not a primary concern & yet you plan on living aboard, eating out every night & only working five weeks per year which will leave you plenty of holiday time.
So this begs the question, can you comfortably stay without income & still maintain your outgoings?

I will assume that your are between 45 & 50 years of age (15yrs to retirement) with a two bedroomed flat & big ideas on how to get a big boat in Malta with very little outlay, I will therefore mirror some of the sudgestions that you may need to think the idea through before you ask further questions.

Most of your facts are based on internet searches & not real world values, just like asking prices, it's a long way off the real figures.

People you have spoken to, agents etc will encourage you all the way, after all without people like you they dont make any money at all.

I really hope I am wrong & are missing something here but you just dont add up, perhaps take a step back & look at what you are asking, there has been much advice based on real experience, dont dismiss it, it's hapened, no matter what your plans learn from it.

How are you planning to finnance this venture?, sell your flat? savings?, let your flat out?, you will need big capital to start, £50,000 indicated + interior modiffications & codeing, berthing, licences,training, fuel, transport costs, flights, launch party etc, all up front. poss £100,000+
Can you afford it without income?

Sorry to put it bluntly but I hope you can see why Iv'e asked the questions. /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
Re: False starts. You\'ll soon understand.

[ QUOTE ]
MapisM, sorry i didn't see the response straight away and now i can't find my way back there. I forgot where it was! Help!

[/ QUOTE ]Well, where I wrote in my previous post ...I also put my penny's worth on this topic..., there was a link (as there is in this one - part in bold) where you can click to jump to the other thread.
I'm not sure this is the help you're looking for though, 'cause you're also confirming that the boat is the one I linked in the same post...
/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
Re: False starts. You\'ll soon understand.

MapisM, i followed your link, but i couldn't navigate back to the menu so i knew where to go back into it, your post was all that was there. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. I'll try again.
I don't mind blunt, if it's genuine and useful!
We have a stable income which doesn't require our presence in the country, we're just using equity in a house to pay for this, so the outlay is not dependant on future income. We should be good and just leave everything until we retire, but that's procrastinating! Why do tomorrow what you can do today, and it's better to do this while we're at the age we can enjoy it fully. The property market would have to get a lot worse before we couldn't afford to have a few years in the sun so so long as it turned out not to be a luxury item which costs £100000 a year to keep. That would be disasterous. At the age the boat is it can't depreciate heavily like a new boat and we don't have to make that much from charters for the boat to cost very little at all, so it's a luxury item that hopefully doesn't cost luxury money.
We wouldn't want and couldn't afford to keep a new yacht, we don't have money to throw away, but we're lucky enough to be in a position whereby we can look after ourselves and enjoy the lifestyle change. This is a priority to us, unlike millionaires who buy a yacht because they can and never use it, we will really appreciate this time ahead of us.
We have compared ourselves to others and found that the boat including looking after it and everything might not cost any more money than a new Aston Martin. £20000 a year in depreciation, £1500 a year to insure, £2500 a year to service. All these figures are life to many many people, and not dissimilar to the costs of owning a boat. We'll keep our 1998 XK8 and upgrade the rubber ducky instead.
How's that for a philosophy?!
And if the bills start coming in thick and fast, we won't hang around. It'll be back in Cowes with a for sale board in it faster than a flight home.
We still appreciate the financial advice, people have listed costs, and when people give the same advice it is probably right. I just don't believe that it can have appreciated we're lucky to have great contacts in the industry who can help get maintenance done cheaply before we leave and while in the Med (expense of parts is the only prob there), and still advise us that we're facing a £50 000 a year running cost. I'd agree if that was meant to include fuel to sruise around an hour a day. Every single day of the year. That would be £45000 in fuel alone. The only way it would cost that is if the vessel suffered a catastrophic structural or mechanical breakdown. A survey will prepare us for the likelyhood of this occurance, and between the sea trial and a further full service and inspection by proper marine engineers will help us ensure the longevity of the motors, so shouldn't have any problems there, and if it does break, it would be a loss. Devistating but no more costly, or likely than recklessly throwing a piston through the block of a new Aston Martin.
Actually expecting the interior refit to be more in the region of £70 to £80k on top of buying the boat, and £3600 for training, £1884 (plus a little vat) for coding upto mgn_280, and not forgetting the £2300 (ish) in fuel alone to get the boat from Cowes where she currently floats back to Nottingham down the Trent. That's just the big things, I want a new gps for it, then there's loads of smaller costs like the SCV and stability tests, mooring on the Trent for the year, a haul out and anode replacement for fresh water, another £1000. And again in a year for a good clean and anode change to take it back out to sea. If you guys can help me out by producing a list of things you can think of i'll see if there's anything we haven't accounted for.
thanks again for the positive comments.
 
Re: False starts. You\'ll soon understand.

Sorry, from before...
She's 44, I'm 28, (but already looking 44 myself!)
Our info resources are limited to internet searches, guidance from yourselves, our few primary contacts and guidance from those who want our business after having plunged neck deep in it. by which time it'll be too late to change our minds. So, you see how valuable you guys are.
 
Re: False starts. You\'ll soon understand.

Rusty

Dont get stuck on one boat do have at lots more, I am on my fifth boat and evrery boat I bought I was sure it was the right one and suprise suprise a few months down the line it proved wrong !

Maybe you can trial living on board first? I do and love it but not every one does?

Tom
 
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