Fairline & Volvo

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jpw

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Paul's point in the 'Problems with DPH drives' thread about Fairline and the other manufacturers being sick to death of all these problems made me think: why when you ask for a nice new FL Targa 38 or 44 with, say, a pair of Yanmars, you are told "Sorry you can only have Volvos"

I appreciate that standardisation brings economies, but why doesn't Fairline offer more choice of engines in its stern-drive Targas? I think Sealine have always offered Mercs or CMD as an alternative to Volvo (even if they were less popular...)

I for one am hanging on to my 1993 Fairline, partially because I don't want the risk of drive problems discussed that may come with a new boat, so this policy is already hurting Fairline's bottom line.

I don't want a Volvo bashing thread, nor am I saying that Yanmars / CMD / Nannis etc are perfect, but I can't be the only one put off like this?
 
The latest design of steering rams should be better, but time will tell.

Sealine only offered a full range of CMD engines when they were part of Brunswick Group, probably because it was a bit embarrasing having a group boat builder that only offered engines from the competition. You won't find many non-Volvo options in the latest brochure.

Earlier attempts at alternative power units had failed dismally - I don't know if anyone remembers the Mercruiser 300hp V8 Diesel, but most of them ended up getting re-powered back to green lumps again. Other manufacturers have also had their share of problems, but because hardly anyone bought them, they are not so well-known. e.g. early attempts at marinising BMW blocks by Yanmar could fairly be described as "disastrous".

But apart from earlier experiments, I would say the main thing holding back builders is the dealer network. With Volvos, they know that in the event of something going wrong, there will be someone local to the boat that will be able to sort it out.
 
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Fair point FP...

I have also heard pub gossip that Volvo offer very cash-flow friendly payment terms to the manufacturers - something like "pay us for the engines only when you have sold the boat" Is there any truth in that rumour? Is that something that Volvo can afford to do more than the competition, because of their size?
 
I don't have inside info on that specifically, but i do know that they get big big volume discounts, which is why not many re-power with volvos: walking in off the street and buying one or two won't get you anywhere near the same price.
 
In this market particularly, engine manufacturers are keen to maintain their % share of the OEM market. IF you go with an annual order for 300 engines you will negociate a fairly significant discount even over normal trade. Certain engine builders (not naming who) offer much better OEM prices than others, it is very difficult to argue to the company accountant why you want to pay an extra 20% for a different brand, over 150 builds that is large amount of extra profit.
 
One engine and drive that get hardly any press on here is yamaha and there hydradrive, the engine is a Toyota based unit but now old tech not meeting latest emission regs, never the less a great unit. Many years ago you could buy a targa with yamaha engines in.
 
jpw said:
Fair point FP...

I have also heard pub gossip that Volvo offer very cash-flow friendly payment terms to the manufacturers - something like "pay us for the engines only when you have sold the boat" Is there any truth in that rumour? Is that something that Volvo can afford to do more than the competition, because of their size?
Click to expand...

I do know that Volvo Penta operate imprest stock agreements with some of the volume manufacturers on a 'pay when fitted' basis and also embed engineers into the production line to fit the engines. The logic being that any issues relating to poor installation are then met under VP's warrranty and not at the cost of the manufacturer.

As already said by someone else, it would be very hard to explain to the Finance Director why you would wish to move to an alternative brand and lose the VP imprest stocking agreement which offers a huge boost to cashflow and financial risk management.
 
volvopaul said:
One engine and drive that get hardly any press on here is yamaha and there hydradrive, the engine is a Toyota based unit but now old tech not meeting latest emission regs, never the less a great unit. Many years ago you could buy a targa with yamaha engines in.
Click to expand...

The Hydradrive is out of production I've read somewhere,
the base Toyota engine is not available anymore, there is a totally new model, which Yamaha didn't take on.

so the ones available are remaining stoks at dealers, etc...

But as you say, a great unit,
that I 've alway's fancyed to own one
 
apart from the volume discount aspect,
it makes sense for a brand like Fairline, to concentrate on one engine brand, also for service purposes.
Their dealernetwork can be more focussed / specialised on one engine brand, resulting in better service.
More experience will finally result in less labour to discover eventual issues and cure them.

Also availability of spare parts is an issue, if using one engine brand, with a good spare parts management, equals faster and better service.

lots has been written on here about expensive Volvo parts, I don't want to defend Volvo on that, but in some occasions I have been pleasantly surprised about availability of spares. and I know it costs money to be able to achieve that.

There is a interesting comparison test in the lastest MBM, between different engines on the same boat.
ao Results about spare parts prices are eye openers.


On My Karnic I had many engine options,
despite a few issues with the D3's, I am very glad that I opted for these
(and it was the only feasable option for a trailable twin diesel weight wise)

A horror story from a Karnic with a Steyer engine was on here,
and the Yanmar BY (BMW engine) offered at that time, didn't even make it to the market I believe .
Also with the Volkswage (at that time) you were on an Island , (now Volkswagen has a joint venture with Mercruiser)
 
Thanks guys.

I am clearer now that the discounts offered for bulk orders are too large to ignore, but it still seems a pity that a client can't spec a boat with the engines of his choice - even more so when the only option has 'issues'...

I bet Fairline (and others) are pushing Volvo hard to get their act together with the sterndrives, and a closely monitoring the client dissatisfaction in monetary terms vs the discounts mentioned above.

Personally I would like Fairline to be quite open about this, and offer Yanmars / Yamahas etc, at whatever price they arrive at, and give the client the choice.

In other words: Mr Client, you can have Volvos in it for say £200k, or Yanmars for £225k, then leave it to the client. I bet some would pay up to be free from DPH drives...

Might even give Volvo food for thought...?
 
I ended up buying a Guy Couch boat when I lived in France. It had a Fiat Marine Engine. AIFO. Apparently Marinised by Lombardini. Fiat are one of the biggest Marine Engine Manufactures in the world. Sold everywhere. APART FROM THE UK. Perhaps that is what we need, a bit of competition.
 
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