Fairline Targa questions

[Greg2]

Agree with what has been said about the repairs.....get a price reduction and do it yourself if you can. Might be worth budgeting for a recon drive from Coastalrides or similar. If the owner insists on doing it then i would consider having the job overseen by an engineer. I would also ask the owner for some evidence if servicing e.g. receipts for oil/filters etc.

I wouldn't necessarily be put off, lots of boats dont have a comprehensive history and I understand it is not unusual for Med boats to be lacking in documentation so the T34 may not be in a better position. I would have an engineers report done on the engines and if the oil isn't too new get analysis done on it to see if there are any nasty surprises hidden away. The hours aren't massive so excessive engine wear is perhaps unlikely......corrosion will be the enemy.

At the right price it could be a good buy. I didn't say it in my last post but I wouldn't personally bother going to see the T34....it is not as big and you will inevitably want to move up. The Med sunshine will also have taken its toll, particularly on the blue gel coat.

On a final note we had KAD 42's in our Targa and they were good engines. I have heard tell of one or two issues but we didn't have any and I haven't met anyone who has (there are always 'Internet' stories about everything if you look hard enough). Sure I would choose the KAD43 if I could but I wouldn't shy away from the 42's.

 

[aquapower]

One known problem is that they are prone to blowing the head gasket.

Not quite as bad as that, they would weep water at the back of head, there was a modified gasket produced and would expect most have been done by now, not a major problem.

 

[yacht]

Just checked with an expert on justanswer, this is what he said:
KAD 44's replaced the KAD 42's and yes they do suffer more blown head gaskets than the KAD44's, but this does not make the engine less reliable and if it has been taken care of during use it should not give you trouble and with KAD44 we still encountered problems with head gaskets. That is why advised you to watch out for temperature when checking the engines as blown head gaskets will effect engine temperature. The problem in your case is that to verify if there is a blown head gasket, then engine would need to be run under load and thus sea trialled. Is it possible to have the boat sea trialled prior to buy the boat? Also these engines on your boat will not be laboring a lot as the hull is very sea worthy and efficient thus the engines can be run comfortably allowing the boat to cruise to 25 knots easily. This will obviously effect positively on the engines.IF you have no issues in sea trial and you are getting it at a very good price, then i suggest you go for it. Noel

 

[volvopaul]

Just checked with an expert on justanswer, this is what he said:
KAD 44's replaced the KAD 42's and yes they do suffer more blown head gaskets than the KAD44's, but this does not make the engine less reliable and if it has been taken care of during use it should not give you trouble and with KAD44 we still encountered problems with head gaskets. That is why advised you to watch out for temperature when checking the engines as blown head gaskets will effect engine temperature. The problem in your case is that to verify if there is a blown head gasket, then engine would need to be run under load and thus sea trialled. Is it possible to have the boat sea trialled prior to buy the boat? Also these engines on your boat will not be laboring a lot as the hull is very sea worthy and efficient thus the engines can be run comfortably allowing the boat to cruise to 25 knots easily. This will obviously effect positively on the engines.IF you have no issues in sea trial and you are getting it at a very good price, then i suggest you go for it. Noel

I've just had a good laugh over these comments, no engine in a boat should labour when under load if its propped correctly, when an engine package is mated to a boats design the builders carry out trials to set up the best prop size for its application, also factoring in 6 months marine growth and the extra all up weight of cruising gear etc.

The 44 is an edc derived engine which will cope better than the earlier kad 42/43 motor as it senses many signals relating to air inlet temp, fuel temp, boost pressure, coolant temp etc, all this info is fed into the ecu that controls the throttle governor which adjust far quicker than a spring type centrifugal governor.

I'd go for the kad 44.


You can also carry out a gas test on the coolant and oil sample, both of which can give an indication of engine condition.

If you have an oil sample I find that these motors show up high alloy content in the oil for some reason, which might indicate worn crankshaft bearings, I stripped a kad32 based on that to find nothing wrong at all.

 

[yacht]

Thanks "volvopaul", I´ve just sent a 2nd question onto justanswer.com and will share later what their "experts" think of these 2 boats I´m looking at. My wife is starting to get bored with me contemplating on these boats but will probably need to fly down to the South in a few weeks to look at the Targa 34 as the choice is difficult and I don´t want to end with a piece of junk that stalls in the Channel or between Mallorca and Barcelona if I buy the boat down South

I've just had a good laugh over these comments, no engine in a boat should labour when under load if its propped correctly, when an engine package is mated to a boats design the builders carry out trials to set up the best prop size for its application, also factoring in 6 months marine growth and the extra all up weight of cruising gear etc.

The 44 is an edc derived engine which will cope better than the earlier kad 42/43 motor as it senses many signals relating to air inlet temp, fuel temp, boost pressure, coolant temp etc, all this info is fed into the ecu that controls the throttle governor which adjust far quicker than a spring type centrifugal governor.

I'd go for the kad 44.


You can also carry out a gas test on the coolant and oil sample, both of which can give an indication of engine condition.

If you have an oil sample I find that these motors show up high alloy content in the oil for some reason, which might indicate worn crankshaft bearings, I stripped a kad32 based on that to find nothing wrong at all.

 

[Nick_H]

I'm perhaps swayed by my bad experience with sterndrives, and good experience with engines, but if the T37 had one new drive in 2011, and you could turn the problem with the other drive into a new one on that side as well, then you'd be running on almost new sterndrives, which hopefully means a few years running before the big bills start. Engines generally seem to be less problematic if they're serviced well, and it's perfectly believable that a boatyard owner would have his own people do the servicing, and wouldn't put it though the books and raise invoices on himself, so i'd ask him for other evidence such as parts receipts. If I was happy with the evidence produced, then i'd go for the bigger and older boat, but with newer sterndrives, AOTBE.

 

[alt]

Such a bargain no one has bought it yet...

If I had a pound for every phone call i've had with "if you still have her in the summer...." i'd have the price of a few pints now It's understandable, boats that size aren't cheap to store, no one wants to be paying dead money to have a boat just sitting there.

The problem I foresee is that someone may actually want to purchase come summer, and we won't want to sell as we'll be sitting on the bathing platform sipping on a beer (in the rain!)

 

[yacht]

Thanks that´s an interesting viewpoint and I agree with you. The thing which I like with the T34 is that it is sitting with a dealer so I´m feeling somewhat more confident about it. In cars I´m a BMW freak have the M3E92 myself, wife the 118i and both came from the dealer and had no issues (both were 1-2yrs old so of course that is one reason for no issues). I realize I´m buying a boat here but feel Fairline is like a BMW? and that buying from the dealer is perhaps more costly incl transportation bills but that I get what I paid for, if that makes any sense? On the other hand, the T37 is like you say a catch if things work out, cheap price for a potentially great boat with new drives. What do you guys think about selling the T37 a few yrs down the line (if I get more kids and need a bigger one), will anyone buy a boat without a service history prior to 2011?

I'm perhaps swayed by my bad experience with sterndrives, and good experience with engines, but if the T37 had one new drive in 2011, and you could turn the problem with the other drive into a new one on that side as well, then you'd be running on almost new sterndrives, which hopefully means a few years running before the big bills start. Engines generally seem to be less problematic if they're serviced well, and it's perfectly believable that a boatyard owner would have his own people do the servicing, and wouldn't put it though the books and raise invoices on himself, so i'd ask him for other evidence such as parts receipts. If I was happy with the evidence produced, then i'd go for the bigger and older boat, but with newer sterndrives, AOTBE.

 

[alt]

yacht - if you find a good boat in the Med, go for it, I say! I'm very envious of the multitude of pictures that the Med guys upload year round.... some day, some day!

 

[Alboretto]

I thought somebody had posted an image of my boat there.
Alt, I don't see radar fitted. To me this is essential for offshore but you are on an inland lake, yes?
For sure you are keeping her in good condition and someday she will be a good choice for a new owner.
You have your value on her which is fair enough but don't book this'd travel tickets jut yet

 

[Alboretto]

If I was happy with the evidence produced, then i'd go for the bigger and older boat, but with newer sterndrives, AOTBE.

Agreed. A Targa 37 with new drives for 60k is very tempting.

 

[Nick_H]

Thanks that´s an interesting viewpoint and I agree with you. The thing which I like with the T34 is that it is sitting with a dealer so I´m feeling somewhat more confident about it. In cars I´m a BMW freak have the M3E92 myself, wife the 118i and both came from the dealer and had no issues (both were 1-2yrs old so of course that is one reason for no issues). I realize I´m buying a boat here but feel Fairline is like a BMW? and that buying from the dealer is perhaps more costly incl transportation bills but that I get what I paid for, if that makes any sense? On the other hand, the T37 is like you say a catch if things work out, cheap price for a potentially great boat with new drives. What do you guys think about selling the T37 a few yrs down the line (if I get more kids and need a bigger one), will anyone buy a boat without a service history prior to 2011?

I don't think the dealer issue is a big one, unless he can demonstrate that he sold the boat to a long standing customer, and has followed it's history. Most dealers know little about the history of the boats they're selling, and if they're on brokerage they're also not warranting the condition at all. I think you need to rely on service records, a good boat and engine survey, and your gut feel having viewed them to determine which boat is in better condition, and has been better maintained.

On the re-sale point, this just doubles the need to get some solid evidence from the T37 seller that the boat has been well maintained in his ownership. You need this anyway for your own purchase decision.

 

[No Regrets]

I don't think you can compare the prehistoric build quality of Boats with any modern car.

Considering the huuuuuge cost, boats are utter rubbish by comparison. There are so many design flaws which could be sensibly avoided, it's staggering anybody buys new ones any more.

 

[alt]

I wouldn't get too hung up on the dealer idea. Any boats i've ever bought have been privately and i've never (touch wood) had an ounce of problems. Infact I would much prefer to buy from a private seller who is actually able to answer questions about the boat and tell you the story of her life, rather than someone who just wants their cut

 

[yacht]

Probably leaning towards the private sellers T37 right now as found out more about the T34 and the broker doesn´t seem to know much of what has been fixed etc:

Snag-List for Fairline Targa 34 Date: 18th July 2012
(JULY 2001-2002 Model)
TABLE 1 (Essential safety or operational items)
Item
Remarks
1
Fire-fighting systems, (fixed Sea-Fire) and portable dry powder units to have annual service and supply all relevant safety equipment prior to use in the area of intended operation
2
Main engines, stern-drives annual service schedule requirements to be checked and addressed where applicable to include investigation into stbd side drive trim operation, and address the surface corrosion on the steering tie-bar fittings and lubricate as required. Engine data to be recovered from ECU’s at time of next service.
3
Investigate helm compass low fluid level
4
Top-up port side batteries in engine room
5
Investigate signal horn failure
6
Investigate VHF failure to operate
7
Replace out of date LPG flexible hoses

TABLE 2 (Operational or service items)
Item
Remarks
1
Wire brush and treat with corrosion inhibitor all light surface corrosion and verdisgris where noted on through-hull sea cocks/handles, and on ferrous fittings and ancillary engine space components as and where required
2
Replace main screen wiper blade rubber elements and investigate port side wiper failure to operate when switch tested
3
Address aft cockpit seat back bonding
4
Replace deteriorated shore power RCD switch cover
5
Consider replacement of Carling switch covers at helm position where decals have faded
6
Consider replacement of broken smoked Perspex drink holders on fore-deck
7
Consider attention to fore-deck sun pad cushion vinyl
8
Address antifouling coatings and anodes prior to season afloat
9
Address leaking aft shower head when water pump is switched on
10
Consider black water holding tank installation

TABLE 3 (Non-essential and cosmetic items)
Item
Remarks
1
Consider attention to various interior locker doors hinge alignment and security as and where required
2
Consider attention to minor interior blemishes where noted; interior valet of carpets, seating material, and covers, deck head, and bulkhead linings etc.
3
Consider attention to exterior hull and topsides gel coat to address various minor gel coat blemishes, scuffs, and chips where noted on the hull topsides, and cockpit mouldings to include localised hairline stress damage on platform moulding, engine intake grill stbd side, and bathing ladder hatch as and where required
4
Consider detailed clean of engine room and accommodation area bilges to remove light standing fluid residue and build debris
5
Consider attention to aft platform teak where seen to be worn and possible improvement to repair in cockpit at companionway entrance area
6
Consider attention to staining on aft cabin mattresses
7
Consider attention to scuffed vinyl hull decals
8
Consider attention to loose main screen seal port side
9
Consider attention to loose rubbing strake rubber port and stbd sides

I wouldn't get too hung up on the dealer idea. Any boats i've ever bought have been privately and i've never (touch wood) had an ounce of problems. Infact I would much prefer to buy from a private seller who is actually able to answer questions about the boat and tell you the story of her life, rather than someone who just wants their cut

 

[Greg2]

Sounds like a Med boat that has not been looked after as it should. Factor in the logistics of dealing with something that involves getting a flight just to get there and the cost of getting it back here makes the 37 at £60k is a way better option IMHO....

 

[Nick_H]

There's nothing very significant in that list, all easily fixable issues, and mostly minor cosmetic stuff, so I wouldn't be put off by it. I still think the 37 sounds more promising for other reasons, but I wouldn't discount the 34 just because of that list.

You've called the T34 seller both a dealer and a broker, yet these are different things. Do you know if he is selling a boat he owns, or selling it on behalf of its (private) owner. It's useful to know this when negotiating price, and you may get some warranty with a dealers stock boat.

 

[alt]

Why so hung up on these particular 2 boats? Is there a bit of brand snobbery going on? Open your mind, man! There are plenty of perfect 'turn the key and go' boats on the market, yet you're dead set on getting one with a list of items that need to be addressed? I don't get it

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Why so hung up on these particular 2 boats? Is there a bit of brand snobbery going on? Open your mind, man! There are plenty of perfect 'turn the key and go' boats on the market, yet you're dead set on getting one with a list of items that need to be addressed? I don't get it

Alt, stop hijacking the thread, he clearly doesn't want your Cranchi.

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[alt]

Alt, stop hijacking the thread, he clearly doesn't want your Cranchi.

Cheers
Jimmy

Who p1ss3d in your cornflakes? I'm not hijacking anything. Take the time to read back on my other posts and I actively suggested that he look at other brands such as SEALINE etc. - I don't see why one would be so hung up on a Fairline, simply because it's a Fairline when there's hundreds of S34 / S37's out there that could probably be got for a very reasonable sum with a bit of negotiation.