julians
Well-Known Member
Thanks, the windy looks nothing like that, dont have any photos of the windy, so wont take this thread any further off topic, thanks again
Fairline Targa 63GTO
- Thread starter petem
- Start date
PowerYachtBlog
Well-Known Member
I am not sure but I had quite a few clients keen on speed when it comes to Sport Yachts of this sizes.
Sold once a Pershing 54 to a client and he did Cala Galera to Dubrovnik in two days.
He then stayed three weeks enjoying Croatia and then went up slowly (shorter trips) cruising at 35-40 knots.
Anyways when he arrived in Dub he called me to thank me just how perfect the boat was for him.
Last year I had a Pershing 52 for sale and a French customer called me to reconfirm if it was the small engines and if this was not a typo.
Basically he wanted a Pershing 52 with big 1000hp (46 knots max 40 cruise) then the 800 units Man etc.
Another client of myn which I sold an Azimut 55 resold it after a year for a Hatteras 60 Convertible which tops 38 knots and cruises at 32 and again the story above is repeating.
When I asked him how about the choice, he said with the Hat he did mostly three time more cruising then he did with the Azimut because of its speed and sea handling.
Also if you in the marinas opposite Sardinia on the Rome side of the Tyrennian (San Felice, Nettuno, Ostia, Riva di Traino) when you go a certain type of look of boat everyone is speaking about speed and important it is to overtake the weather most importantly the Summer NW which come up and down especially if you are doing the 100 nm of crossing.
Anyways I got calls like this every week, speed is very much important now a days because life is much faster then it used to be ten years ago.
Time is the only thing you cannot buy.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Mmm... Define acceptable. Useless is more like it, imho.
How many times do you think that a boat like the S60, in real world, will be used to go from SoF to Corsica at a 30+ kts AVERAGE?
It's half an hour difference vs. the poor guy who does the same route with his "non-S" flybridge at 25 knots, ferchrissake!
Not to mention that the latter will probably enjoy a more comfortable trip, and pay the restaurant for himself and all his guests out of fuel savings alone.
P if it's set up properly power wise, a big sports cruiser like the S 6O ,but should be any model of the genre ,then the answer is every time @ 30 knots .
Reason wot any thing over 36 , this case Priny S60 38 , Riva 63 - 41 , Itama 62 -42 knots -- all on shafts
All MAN of various variants --- there's a plateau of mpg , what I mean is the L/ r may rise ,but because you arrive in this case Coricia 1/2 h earlier , turn off net fuel use is neither here or there .
30 knots for most. Of the above ,inc my boat is under 2000 rpm ,for me 1850 ish .
Backing down to 25 as you reccomend mean 15/1600 and the turbo,s are semi spooling EGT. S drop
Risk of sooting up etc , I need to run 1750 up wards - to get the optimum cylinder temps / pressures for the least damaging after effects of compressing oil as a fuel .
1750-1900 rpm is on a plateau mpg wise ( ish ) so there's no advantage to doing 25 knots .
As DAW in this excellent review points out " real world speed " of the 63 GTO is 25 knots and I bet that's around 2000 rpm -- " sit all day " Jack said that in the vid .
You would not want to really " sit all day " @ 2150 mid season on the ski jump slope area of the L / h curve .
Hope this all makes sense of sports boat use in the SoF .
Aside man maths 100 miles in 3 hrs is easy to reckon in your head :encouragement:
Btw Thx to jack for the prompt vid , but body language and facial expressions I read disappointment .
Flat calm too , flattered the hull , as it would a shoe box .Therefore the jury is still out on running really ,and I,am being generous here .
Nice to know I got the 25knot cruise thing right .
I hope I,am wrong on the size of the ER,s ability to take the V 12 and the pancake flat hull = tendency to slam ?
La Napoule fuel pontoon btw .
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MapisM
Well-Known Member
Well, maybe I've been unlucky in my decades of boating, because to my memory just 10% of the times I've been out there (if that), the sea conditions would have allowed a comfortable cruise at 30 knots or more with any 50/60 footer.
That's what I meant when I said in "real world", regardless of any technical capabilities of the boats.
Let's be honest, folks.
It's not like we are not aware of how much sea motion it takes to make the ride uncomfortable in a P54 bashing waves at 40kts: depending also on wind direction relative to course, just an F4 can be more than enough.
A similar size Magnum might withstand a tad worse conditions maybe, as long as also the crew does, which is questionable in a 700nm transfer made in 2 days, anyway.
But ultimately, again in REAL WORLD, what can and does happen quite often is that by the time TwoHooter with his Nordhavn has reached Dubrovnik from Cala Galera cruising comfortably non-stop at 8 knots, some P54 owner might be still stuck in the marina waiting for a weather window that allows him to hammer the throttles and make the transfer in two days, just for the sake of earning some bragging rights...
In fact, I always smile when people say that they need a fast boat because "time is the only thing they can't buy".
Normally, it's absolutely not true that these folks love to go boating but they don't have enough time for it.
They don't have enough time for boating because what they actually love better is making money - as simple as that.
But of course, the first of these different perspectives is a more elegant way to justify the purchase of a Pershing or whatever...
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Whitelighter
Well-Known Member
1994 52ft ish Ferretti I hold 2250l
not sure that is generous, struck me as being about right with twin 550Hp (2 x 600Hp the upgrade)
PowerYachtBlog
Well-Known Member
These year conditions where perfect and it was not the only one. That is if you cruise in Summer.
And where I live, as the area of your Summer residence is not a gentle one.
SoF and Adriatic is a peace of cake vs the Central Med where I reside.
I would say only the Ionian, and Aegean (second part of Summer) is worse to the Central Med for sea conditions, Med wise.
A lot of boats I know are capable of cruising comfortable at the thirty knot mark in the 1-1.5 meter wave territory, which is what you get in Summer in most of the Med anyway.
Itamas and Magnums would not even bother in that kind of sea as would an Uniesse (mostly the 57) and the Cayman 58 and or 52. The Pershing 52 and 54 are also the same, as are Italcraft models.
I am speaking of models which I helmed myself here.
The rest when the Mistral comes down (couple times from July to August W med) is an exception.
The idea of arriving to Croatia ASAP was not really about bragging wrights, 1) the owner had cruised SI many times so he did not want to be bothered, 2) he wanted to make the best of Croatia
I do the same when cruising arrive at the top (or near) of the destination ASAP, and then after that take it easy cruising about one to two hours a day max, with always an advantage on the weather.
jrudge
Well-Known Member
Speed or no speed debate aside I am surprised it only does 30knotts.
Squadron 65 with the same 1150 cats does a real world 34 knots and it is a lot lot bigger.
Most economical litres per mile was 29 knots which I did nearly all the way from Sardinia to menorca.
Squadron 65 with the same 1150 cats does a real world 34 knots and it is a lot lot bigger.
Most economical litres per mile was 29 knots which I did nearly all the way from Sardinia to menorca.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Capable of cruising yes, but define comfortably.
I was once passed at very short distance by a P52 cruising fast (well into the high 30s, at a guess), while cruising in a 1.5m or so head sea.
And you know what? All the guests I had onboard asked me what was wrong in that boat, because of the weird slamming sound of the hull bashing against every other wake, which was much louder than the noise of their engines - go figure.
Sure, I was onboard my old lady and not the Pershing, so I can't tell first hand that those onboard were taking a punishment. And obviously the helmsman decided to not slow down, so if they were happy, so was I.
All I know is that in our boat we were on the flybridge, with the boat on a/p, and I was standing with a drink in hand chatting with my guests, while everyone onboard the P52 were either sitting or laying down, firmly and constantly attached to something.
Two days of cruising like that? Not my idea of pleasure boating, thank you.
But each to their own!
Regardless of all the above, and back to technicalities, the last jrudge post is interesting.
I wasn't aware that the Sq65 is that fast. That and the F630 definitely put the T63 performance in perspective...
...Also because, in turn, this implies that the T63 burns a whopping 10% more fuel than the Sq65! :ambivalence:
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MapisM
Well-Known Member
I don't have any meaningful comparison in mind with boats of the same size and vintage, but what you might find out is that getting the same power out of more modern engines would allow a relevant saving both in size and weight, in turn leaving more room for larger tanks.
There has been a lot of water under the bridge enginewise, between your boat and the F57 of the previous example...
Whitelighter
Well-Known Member
Off to go buy a pair of D9-575s
Not
Not
PowerYachtBlog
Well-Known Member
Off to go buy a pair of D9-575s
Not
Wrong engine for your 150 Fly. Re-powering rule one is that it should be done much more based on cc of an engine then its HP.
So I think an 11-12 liter lump should be it. The 150 faster engine used to be the Cats 609hp. Fer never offered the 669 on the 150 (50), I do not know if there was a different reason for this.
Obviously new boats are designed around smaller engines so that is a different thing all together.
petem
Well-Known Member
Looking at the website, the Targa 63 is the same length and beam as the Sq65 and is estimated to be heavier too. My suspicion and hope is that the smaller engined boat will end up at around 32.5kts with the larger engined version doing 35kts.
Fairline have never built VERY fast boats and it doesn't seem to have hindered them in the past. I recall the old Targa 43 maxed out at 35kts and they sold so many there were 18 in Portals marina alone.
Looking at the video what strikes me is the absolute refinement under way. Jack's not even raising his voice! So if Vripack have traded a couple of knots to give class leading sea keeping and quietness then that's a pretty brave move and it will be interesting to see how buyers react
Anyhow, for such a tiny builder and for a new collaboration I think they've done an amazing job and I'm sure they will find buyers for them.
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jrudge
Well-Known Member
How on earth is it heavier than a thumping great fly bridge !
petem
Well-Known Member
I don't know but that's what it says on the website! Presumably the same dodgy figure could have been used to calculate max speed!
PowerYachtBlog
Well-Known Member
And I think 63 GTO is resin infusion build why the old 65 Sq was not. So that should a ton less as well alone.
jrudge
Well-Known Member
Stranger things have happened.
My dad ( who sadly died a few days ago ) was a long time lotus dealer.
The esprit was released. The motoring press panned it for chronic understeer.
The factory was aghast. What do you mean under steer. The car is perfect.
The issue? Before testing the journalists checked the tyre pressure and corrected it. There was a typo in the manual !
Who would have known he effect of a typo !
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Portofino
Well-Known Member
Pete Jacks test was on a mill pond
From the data so far and the visual on the mill pond
I think it's gonna slam in real 1-1/2M
Seas
It's a 25 knot boat
Your T 43 was a 27 knot boat in 1-1/2 M waves in it day ok
At today's €1-5 M 60 ftr the bar is raised to real world cruise 30 knots
That's the starting point that the 1st person at the brain storm comitte should have picked up the marker pen and wrote on the nobo board
18 months ago -then built the boat around that figure .
It's did not happen
Shape from Mancini is fab- full marks to him it's beautiful
Parked up in a marina !
From the data so far and the visual on the mill pond
I think it's gonna slam in real 1-1/2M
Seas
It's a 25 knot boat
Your T 43 was a 27 knot boat in 1-1/2 M waves in it day ok
At today's €1-5 M 60 ftr the bar is raised to real world cruise 30 knots
That's the starting point that the 1st person at the brain storm comitte should have picked up the marker pen and wrote on the nobo board
18 months ago -then built the boat around that figure .
It's did not happen
Shape from Mancini is fab- full marks to him it's beautiful
Parked up in a marina !
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jrudge
Well-Known Member
Whilst not gods gift to boating so feel free to shout me down but in my view it would take an awful lot to make a 65ft hull slam.
I had a Cranchi Endurance and god would that slam so I do know all about slamming. See a white cap - SLAM
I drive boats not to excess by a long chalk but I pick a speed and stick to it until the sea finally annoys me so much I slow down. The speed i pick is for comfort by and large, but I don't hang about. The T40, S65 and now S58 have never slammed if you exclude the 65 disappearing into a huge hole that shook the poor thing to its very core ( on my first not local trip in the boat ... ).
Fairline ( Princess and Sunseeker etc) all know what they are doing and I would not think any of them would make something that would easily slam.
I do however not understand it being slower and heavier than a S65.
I am sure an Itama can for 50 knots all day but I am with Mapsm those people are in the minority in my view. The mind who taught me was a skipper called Richard. He constantly pointed out ..... remember this is a pleasure activity!
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D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Sorry to hear about your dad J. I bet as a Lotus dealer he was an interesting dad to be around
As I said a few pages ago on this thread, I always think cock up first. During the course of running my business I have looked at thousands of bits of advertising material from machinery manufacturers and there have been countless typos, gross errors and downright lies. My guess would be in the case of the GTO speed figures that there has been some miscommunication between the design and marketing depts and in the rush to get the GTO launched nobody has actually looked at the spec and said hang on that doesnt look right. I wouldnt be surprised if the 5000L fuel tank capacity turns out to be wrong as well
I think once the GTO hits the water, the tests will show its good for 35kts+ with 1200hp motors. If not then the designers need to go back to the drawing board
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Thats a given these days Pete. All the boat manufacturers have made improvements in the NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) performance of their products over the years. Long gone are the days when you could sell a cruising boat in which you couldnt hear yourself think at 20kts