Fairline Targa 63GTO

matm said:
Totally agree. Hopefully they can fix that. Outbound marketing is a tough game. Given the (answered) phone calls to my mobile post Southampton last year, something obviously got lost. You also have my mobile number on a PM re CD prices etc from last year - call me anytime, internet is cr4p.

Cheers

Mat
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Hi Mat, Fairline have been in touch with me this morning and I have passed them your email address (the PM I've kept from you doesn't have your number on). Their Marketing Director will contact you today.
 
Maybe all the reg stuff has been lost ?
Sunseeker and Ferretti both offer me invites to the shows .
An Italian Itama dealer last year and this year invited me to a preview at the Monaco Yacht club .Could not make last Fridays Duran ,Duran concert or Sat ,s free for all drive .Ok Ferretti group marketing budget is huge across the range .

So they FL -ought to target owners especially test drives and previews of new boats .

Soton would be good to try this approach initially . @ Cannes too usually between 4-6 pm they do test drives in the bay. Dozen @ a time. Everybody gets a chance to helm .
Naturally most sales folk have a filter and you need to position yourself as a prospective to blag a ride .
How ever Matm , sounds like one .
Great thing about databases and a switched on ( excuse the pun ) marketing ,I have found ,once you mention your name to the pretty lady @ the gate she taps it and your in - no re filling forms etc .
Sales guy leaves you alone on
the boat for a min while he goes off reads the screen .

FL are regathering momentum now in the Med I,am sure after this launch the sales n marketing dept will basically copy the competitors and woo existing owners .
E - zine mag is another marketing ploy that they all seem to use these days too to keep in touch .

Btw the boat looks a stunner and if it's refined it ought to be a success .
 
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matm said:
Going to be controversial for a second but unless I was really looking for this on social media, forums etc, I might have missed it. Ok... there was a pic last year at Southampton on the FL stand.......
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In Fairline's case I still think they are playing catch up after the corporate re-build. The factory will be selling directly to dealers and so ultimately it's how well those dealers look after their prospects. Given the tiny number of boats being produced then divided between the different countries each dealer doesn't actually have that big a budget. As a manufacturer Fairline are keen to promote and will invest but I suspect dealers are more focussed on generating real time profit.

Talking as an industry there have been some great examples over the years. Despite as FlowerPower so delicately put it being aimed at people looking to entertain their "nieces" and possibly not my taste you can't deny the Sunseeker marketing machine it's success. When ever I mention boats to people they always ask if it's a Sunseeker. It's the only boat they've heard of.

Princess are slowly starting to come out of the shadows. For a long time they were almost too polite and understated but now they are starting to blow their own trumpet a bit. A front & centre stand at Southampton, product placement, social media and a genuine world wide presence. When I was out at the Singapore boat show last year it was almost the Princess boat show. Sunseeker were nowhere to be seen. A strong local dealer keen to drive the brand and lots of boats in the water.

We get a regular magazine from Princess, they are starting to arrange more social events and cruise in company trips (something the South East Asia guys also do) and for me that's a great way of keeping in touch. Having people use the product together. Owners enjoy themselves, the brand gets shown off, some great photo opportunities.

I think an owners club is a great idea as well. Not a club comparing beards but genuine owners who's membership card allows access to hospitality and boat access at the shows. Tied in to the group cruises, factory tours, product launches, technical support and so on. The marketing dept can also tap into it.

Tell me this isn't a win win scenario. There is a more recent event video but I couldn't put my finger on it...



They did have a trip to Nikki Beach bar in Phuket but there really isn't much to see. I don't even know why I'm posting the video ;)



Henry :)
 
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petem said:
Hi Mat, Fairline have been in touch with me this morning and I have passed them your email address (the PM I've kept from you doesn't have your number on). Their Marketing Director will contact you today.
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Replied and genuinely look forward to it. Also in touch with another owner who is interested. For us "non-flybridge" people it could be something worthwhile looking at properly. Waited for it for a while.
 
Portofino said:
Actually ,with a V12 bigger shaft ,props and the shaft seal , eating more mm .
My €€€ are on a V 12 does,n ,t fit .
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My money is on the money in that I suspect the main reason that Fairline probably didnt even look at the MAN V12 engines is that they cost a lot more than the MAN V8 engines when you also factor in the other components around the engine which have to be beefed up for the extra weight and torque. Just to pluck a figure out of the air, I would guess say £100k difference and in a market in which Fairline are trying to regain a foothold that may be enough to gain or lose a sale

Having said that, 32kts is pretty damn slow for a 63 footer packing 1200hp per side. To put that into perspective my fat, heavy Ferretti 630 with 1200hp per side (MAN V12) and which weighs 6t more than the 63GTO and which has supposedly power sapping V drive gearboxes will pull 34kts (as witnessed by Mapism)

So where has the speed gone? The 63GTO deadrise seems to be military medium so its not as if the hull is a power sapping deep V. I can only conclude that 1200 V8 ponies are weedier than 1200 V12 ponies unless Fairline is being super conservative
 
Thx Mike ,
It's am anomaly ,that only an experienced boater seems to be picking up on .
Every man and his dog is gonna be home referencing --- just like you and I .
Then conveniently, walking 10 M to the next acetate sign and comparing numbers ,or sat with a beer peering into his device .
I sincerely hope it's some kind of inverse marketing ( despite the data base invite fiasco ) --- and Jacks gonna spill the beans
In New FL favour :encouragement:
As said there's some pretty tooled up 60 + frs battle harded @ Cannes.
This is not a damp Jan at the excel ,big fish in a small pond - UK shoot out .
As it is it slow FB performance .
 
Deleted User said:
I can only conclude that 1200 V8 ponies are weedier than 1200 V12 ponies unless Fairline is being super conservative
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The torque plays a big part in all this. I wonder how T nos compare in the new Man 1200 V8 vs V12.
And to repeat what Portofino says, torque will even play a greater role once you go to real use nos with fouling, real world antifouling, bells and whistles etc
 
PowerYachtBlog said:
The torque plays a big part in all this. I wonder how T nos compare in the new Man 1200 V8 vs V12.
And to repeat what Portofino says, torque will even play a greater role once you go to real use nos with fouling, real world antifouling, bells and whistles etc
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Not really. In simplistic terms, torque determines acceleration and power determines speed so given that both boats have supposedly the same power and the 63GTO is appreciably lighter you would expect more than 34kts from the GTO

Anyway maybe the MBY test will show the GTO blasting through 40kts. With a name like that it really ought to;)
 
Deleted User said:
Not really. In simplistic terms, torque determines acceleration and power determines speed so given that both boats have supposedly the same power and the 63GTO is appreciably lighter you would expect more than 34kts from the GTO

Anyway maybe the MBY test will show the GTO blasting through 40kts. With a name like that it really ought to;)
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PYB has it right
Torque is king ,the ability to turn,twist etc --- erh a shaft with a prop. The more T the bigger the prop + pitch .
Hp is the rate bit ,i.e. Related to acceleration. Who cares about this ?
V8 is 4050 Nm --- V12 5100 Mm in 1200 hp guise .
As mentioned ^^^^ way back bigger G box , shaft ,and rethink of the prop pitch for in 1900 Hp 40 knot +
Or "base " V 12 1200 , 25 % more torque than the V8 may be mid table 36 knots ,for a sports cruiser ,but FB beating .
There's a same size V12 1600,and 1900 with 6000Nm T that's 50'% more than the V8 offered ---wow

Of course offer a poverty spec V8 ,or CAT 1200 for the yanks to put on the acetate display
Price from ------ low and keen to hook a punter
Knowing too well most buyers will go for the V12

As PYB has said with the new last Y launch @ Cannes Pershing 50. Two choices , the Boggo low Hp shaft and the 15 % / 20 % more €€€ --- faster Arnesons + bigger engines ---- 1/2 of the buyers are asking for the bigger engines .

I know it's old now ,but take my boat one of many Itama modals around 2001-2004
3 engine options ( according to the hand book )
Volvo penta 480 hp
CAT 450 hp for the Yanks
MAN 610 , @ launch ,up grades to 700 2003, and run out 2003 -- 730 hp
The T from the MAN 13 L over the Volvo 9 L an extra 1000 +Nm ---

Nice acetate display @ boat show and mag write ups with €€ from .
Only one was orded with the CAT,s ( Caribbean - Bahamas ) the others approx 20 over the 3 y build were all MAN ,s
Point is they had a choice .

There's only 50 Hp difference in what FL are offering --- that's crazy
 
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matm said:
Totally agree. Hopefully they can fix that. Outbound marketing is a tough game. Given the (answered) phone calls to my mobile post Southampton last year, something obviously got lost. You also have my mobile number on a PM re CD prices etc from last year - call me anytime, internet is cr4p.

Cheers

Mat
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Matt, I believe you've had a call from Fairline. I hope they've managed to sort something out for you!

Pete
 
Torque is king ,the ability to turn,twist etc --- erh a shaft with a prop. The more T the bigger the prop + pitch .
Hp is the rate bit ,i.e. Related to acceleration. Who cares about this ?
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No, sorry thats wrong. Providing the propellors are properly matched to the max rpm and available horsepower, the boat with the larger horsepower will go faster, all other things being equal so its power that determines top speed, not torque. Torque will determine how quickly the boat accelerates to that top speed.

If you think about it, if torque was the only determinant of speed why do boatbuilders bother fitting high powered engines in fast boats?
 
Deleted User said:
If you think about it, if torque was the only determinant of speed why do boatbuilders bother fitting high powered engines in fast boats?
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Never said is was the only "determinant "

High powered engines tend to have higher T , as well .

In silly racing stuff ( we are not talking that here btw ) the T curve is mountain shaped like , and the Hp a upward slope ,
The prop curve usually cross,s the two .

A higher T @ the same rpm say in the MAN range eg here the V8 has 4K Nm ,and the smallest V12 5 K Nm,
This means it will swing a bigger pitched prop .
So at WOT say 2250 rpm the one that goes 9 knots at tick over 600 rpm - V12 will go faster than the V 8 that goes 6 knots at 600 rpm .
They will mess about with the G box ratio,s and prop pitch keeping an eye on load and EGT,s

Horse power is in the public psychi ,but it the torque figure that's more important they are related .
I had a Testarosa once ,it was in the Guinness book of records once , top speed nope .
0- 180 mph ------- in one gear ---- yup you could set off in 5 th --- cos of the torque being so low down .
At stand still no air resistance .As it went past 150 mph then power Hp needed to push it through the air resistance .

A lower flat torque curve in a boat means the props spin even when fouled , unlike Topics thread .
You just loose speed cos they are inefficient covered in crap , but at least you can rev it up .
The greater torque means the higher the gear and therefore eventually top speed .

Boat has only one gear ,so the more torque the bigger pitch prop -= go faster .

Any how engines aside my accommodation V s performance argument ,
Weights a speed killer as it increase drag the ultimate speed killer in a boat , the under water surface area and anything dangling .
 
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Deleted User said:
given that both boats have supposedly the same power and the 63GTO is appreciably lighter you would expect more than 34kts from the GTO
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Agreed. I didn't look at the FL weight, but if she really is 6T lighter than youf F630, even achieving the same max speed could be considered disappointing - let alone doing 2kts less.
If that has anything to see with the Vripack wide chine hull, whatever that means, it's hard to predict a bright future for it... :rolleyes:

Besides, with the same V12 that you have (i.e. in its 1224hp flavour - nowadays MAN squeezes much more than that from the V12), she would actually be even slower, not faster, if you think about it.
In fact, the 24x2 additional hp are neither here nor there, when compared to the additional weight of V12 vs. V8 block.

In fact, I agree on torque being irrelevant, when talking of max speed.
Why W & L seem to think the opposite, that's something I can't begin to understand... :confused:
 
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MapisM said:
Agreed. I didn't look at the FL weight, but if she really is 6T lighter than youf F630, even achieving the same max speed could be considered disappointing - let alone doing 2kts less.
If that has anything to see with the Vripack wide chine hull, whatever that means, it's hard to predict a bright future for it... :rolleyes:


Why W & L seem to think the opposite, that's something I can't begin to understand... :confused:
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Turning a bigger pitched prop .

Back to the 63 GTO
It's gotta be drag , the speed killer .
Drilling down into that
1- underwater surface area a manifestation of the hull
2- too much underwater apendage ( s ) dangly bits

Has it got V drives ?
If not like to know the shaft angles , may be that's it for too much of the 1200 Hp wasted pushing in the wrong direction with fine pitched props .

Back to lifting skirts at boat shows me thinks ,:)
 
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