Failed survey

[Portofino]

What if the contract hasn't been signed by the seller / broker?

Double edge .
One side , it it’s big , grey , got flappy ears , a tail and a trunk between two tusk it’s a elephant.
If it looks like an elephant ACT s / BEHAVES like it is an elephant it is indeed an elephant.
Wether the cage is labelled “ signed “ or not .

By the broker acting / behaving as if the contract signed and the seller , ie handing over the depo before being allowed to instruct a surveyor etc then sending one to the seller to say “ hey this is how I want you to proceed “


Other side
So the head zoologist at London zoo signs a label “ mouse “ and sticks it over the eliphant house door ,
The “signed” label Pete does not change the facts .

Obviously JFM s in the know but signatures are in theory there to make less of a chance of a dispute or rapid resolution of a difference ONLY if the parties understand what they signed .What they agreed is the route map out .

Not sure on contract law but many a medico legal diffence case has failed regarding consent because the patients signed a phone book full of technical language , accurate but the signature thing is discredited by the courts because the patient claims they never understood exactly what they signed .

How ever there actions are closely scrutinised .For example by booking your appointment with a clinician say the dentist , arriving punctually , removing your coat sitting in the chair , opening your mouth for a check up etc , that’s an agreement consent by implication even thought you have not signed a contract or anything .

You can’t turn round after and say I,am not paying for it as I have not signed anything before saying I would .
Implied consent or agreement. What exactly was your intention booking the appointment?

I don’t think it matters if the contract is signed or not it’s neutral both parties have abided by it consented thus far by there actions and intentions.

Law is pretty fair .
Take co habitees ( I,am married btw ) same as the elephant.If it looks like a marriage , you are acting like a marriage etc then legally we gonna treat you both as in marriage for divorce separation stuff .You can’t say we never signed a marriage certificate so she’s gets nothing , it’s all mine house pension the lot .Court says ( her legal team ) it’s was your intention and you acted like a married couple .Therefore we will treat you like a married couple even though there’s no signature ( marriage cert )

It’s is the buyers intention to follow that contract inc 5 ( 2.1 ), Broker so far has followed it .

 

[jfm]

I dont have time for a long post (I’m in your shipyard Porto, la Rague) but a contract you have signed and they haven’t isnt a dentist implied contract/consent, it’s basically an option held by the other side. Erk! Why do people get into these scrapes????

 

[Dazzajohm]

I’ve had some issues in the past where I bought a boat and between a satisfactory survey, me accepting the boat and then going to collect it a week or so later, one of the engines ran out of fuel. Subsequently the owner in trying to bleed through the fuel once the tank was topped up caused some leaks. I had a hell of a battle trying to use the sale and purchase to get it sorted and in fact although the purchase was in September it’s only just been resolved the past few weeks!

This aside, if it’s the standard sale and purchase agreement you can surely use to your advantage as you’re entitled to reject the boat in writing and have the deposit returned but as others have said If you like the boat apart from the problems then ask for the issues to be fixed by an engineer which must be documented and evidence provided and then all would be well.

I’d err on the side of caution of taking a reduction in price to the cost of repairs. As I’m sure we’ve all experienced sometimes fixing one problem leads to the discovery of others while that’s being done so put the onus on the seller to rectify, at least some of the issues.

During the survey of my recent purchase there were quite a number of findings which I split down to items I wanted done by the owner and then made a lower offer due to the other items which I am in the process of doing myself.

 

[Bigplumbs]

I dont have time for a long post (I’m in your shipyard Porto, la Rague) but a contract you have signed and they haven’t isnt a dentist implied contract/consent, it’s basically an option held by the other side. Erk! Why do people get into these scrapes????

Dentist...… Did the Surveyor spot bad teeth as well

 

[MrB]

Dentist...… Did the Surveyor spot bad teeth as well

The "Dentist" bit was in reply to Portos post.

 

[Mr Googler]

The "Dentist" bit was in reply to Portos post.

Who has the time to read and make sense of that though

 

[Seastoke]

Russ in your post on the sealine forum you said ,the boat had two owners from new

 

[Bigplumbs]

I think it is important for the OP to be aware that some of the comments in this thread are from the 'I Polish the inside of my Engine bay brigade' or worse I have it polished for me...……… Draw your own conclusions

 

[MapisM]

Who has the time to read and make sense of that though

LOL, as Jim Davis of Garfield fame says, more often than not, when we laugh at something it's not because it's funny, but because it's true.
Your comment is a substantiating evidence of that, if I've ever seen one!

 

[bluetooth]

Double edge .
One side , it it’s big , grey , got flappy ears , a tail and a trunk between two tusk it’s a elephant.
If it looks like an elephant ACT s / BEHAVES like it is an elephant it is indeed an elephant.
Wether the cage is labelled “ signed “ or not .

By the broker acting / behaving as if the contract signed and the seller , ie handing over the depo before being allowed to instruct a surveyor etc then sending one to the seller to say “ hey this is how I want you to proceed “


Other side
So the head zoologist at London zoo signs a label “ mouse “ and sticks it over the eliphant house door ,
The “signed” label Pete does not change the facts .

Obviously JFM s in the know but signatures are in theory there to make less of a chance of a dispute or rapid resolution of a difference ONLY if the parties understand what they signed .What they agreed is the route map out .

Not sure on contract law but many a medico legal diffence case has failed regarding consent because the patients signed a phone book full of technical language , accurate but the signature thing is discredited by the courts because the patient claims they never understood exactly what they signed .

How ever there actions are closely scrutinised .For example by booking your appointment with a clinician say the dentist , arriving punctually , removing your coat sitting in the chair , opening your mouth for a check up etc , that’s an agreement consent by implication even thought you have not signed a contract or anything .

You can’t turn round after and say I,am not paying for it as I have not signed anything before saying I would .
Implied consent or agreement. What exactly was your intention booking the appointment?

I don’t think it matters if the contract is signed or not it’s neutral both parties have abided by it consented thus far by there actions and intentions.

Law is pretty fair .
Take co habitees ( I,am married btw ) same as the elephant.If it looks like a marriage , you are acting like a marriage etc then legally we gonna treat you both as in marriage for divorce separation stuff .You can’t say we never signed a marriage certificate so she’s gets nothing , it’s all mine house pension the lot .Court says ( her legal team ) it’s was your intention and you acted like a married couple .Therefore we will treat you like a married couple even though there’s no signature ( marriage cert )

It’s is the buyers intention to follow that contract inc 5 ( 2.1 ), Broker so far has followed it .

Loving the dental analogy !
My only comment on this would be reactionary (pain) or elective extraction on understanding of verbal/written consent/agreement.
Little different!

 

[MrB]

I think it is important for the OP to be aware that some of the comments in this thread are from the 'I Polish the inside of my Engine bay brigade' or worse I have it polished for me...……… Draw your own conclusions

No Dennis, the problem is with the inconsistencies with the paperwork from the broker.

 

[Bigplumbs]

No Dennis, the problem is with the inconsistencies with the paperwork from the broker.

Never worried too much about the paperwork on any of my boats as they are all rather old and the most expensive one was £18K

I Think it would be useful if the OP told us the agreed sale price prior to the Survey being carried out. I suspect if it is a S34 with Kad 32'S I guess it would have been on the order of £60-£70K where I grant you paperwork is more important

 

[Bigplumbs]

Another thought might be to get a second opinion on the Survey because the first Surveyor might have bee a little over cautious. If for example the sump rust is just surface rust. I am a Chartered Surveyor and I know many Surveyors (not boat surveyors) whos first thought is about the fee and to cover their own arse. If a boat they survey is seldom sold they are at little risk and also potentially more work for them as new buyers rock up to potentially buy the same boat

 

[Portofino]

I dont have time for a long post (I’m in your shipyard Porto, la Rague) but a contract you have signed and they haven’t isnt a dentist implied contract/consent, it’s basically an option held by the other side. Erk! Why do people get into these scrapes????

Using AdB,s wide choise of lifting equipment?? They lend tools as well and if you ask nicely you can use there bench’s in the workshop.

I,am trying to devalue the signature thing ( lack of by the broker / seller in this case ) and move the momentum behind , behaviour, action , intentions .

We ( Russ ) are where we are now .

 

[jrudge]

Law is pretty fair .
Take co habitees ( I,am married btw ) same as the elephant.If it looks like a marriage , you are acting like a marriage etc then legally we gonna treat you both as in marriage for divorce separation stuff .You can’t say we never signed a marriage certificate so she’s gets nothing , it’s all mine house pension the lot .Court says ( her legal team ) it’s was your intention and you acted like a married couple .Therefore we will treat you like a married couple even though there’s no signature ( marriage cert )

It absolutely is not. the case. The only "beneficiary" for a cohabitee is child support should there be children they are looking after.

Common law wife etc etc is urban myth.

 

[Portofino]

It absolutely is not. the case. The only "beneficiary" for a cohabitee is child support should there be children they are looking after.

Common law wife etc etc is urban myth.

Point I was making one would like to think an honourable guy would do the honourable thing , even more so if she bore your children.
Rarther than hang his hat on lack of signatures ( marriage cert in this case ) .

Never mind .
Interesting to unearth different values and views, guess that what forums do .

 

[jrudge]

M

Point I was making one would like to think an honourable guy would do the honourable thing , even more so if she bore your children.
Rarther than hang his hat on lack of signatures ( marriage cert in this case ) .

Never mind .
Interesting to unearth different values and views, guess that what forums do .

Porto. It has nothing to do with values etc. You said a court would treat you as married. It does not.

 

[Portofino]

M

Porto. It has nothing to do with values etc. You said a court would treat you as married. It does not.

Let’s not get sidetracked into another grey area of disputes irrelevant to the thread .

I,am an optimist , I can’t see this going to court and if it did then Russ is as I said only excerising one of the options in section 5 .2.1 the return of the depo .
Broker not gonna like that request may push back initially but will accept it before a court appearance .


In other words are you inferring that ( keep maths easy ) with a £100 K boat a broker can take 10 % off every prospect first ,then post a unsigned contract and just carry on umpteen times never giving it back under any circumstances .
So 10 times later the broker has amassed £ 100 K from unreturned depos on a hidden faults boats after 10 surveys .
And the boats sat unsold waiting to lure the next £10 K ???
Hiding behind the lack of signatures.

 

[Mr Googler]

Let’s not get sidetracked into another grey area of disputes irrelevant to the thread .

Oh the irony....you do make me laugh Porto

Any update Russ?

 

[petem]

Oh the irony....you do make me laugh Porto

Me too. Instead of writing a load of bollox it might have been simpler for Porto to say "Despite the unsigned contract, I would hope the broker would do the decent thing and return Russ's deposit".