Experience for Local Knowledge Endorsement

[Gedimin]

Hi,

I'm toying with idea of having a small power boat on tidal Thames and potentially take paying passengers from time to time. I know that if it comes to that it requires proper licensing with PLA and conforming to lots of rules. All standards are clear and not too hard to conform with the right attitude and a bit of dedication, but there is one stumbling block for me - Local Knowledge Endorsement. It seems like the only way of getting it is to spend 60 days on the river (and pass an exam) which is pretty hard to do if you don't already have a boat or if you are not a professional crew.

It's a long shot, but maybe there is someone who is regularly cruising tidal Thames already so that I could join you on weekends to get my experience and to help cover your fuel costs? Or maybe someone in the same position like me? (unlikely though...) Of course someone might suggest 'just buy a boat and gain experience', but it involves too much money for a temporary boat, and I do have another sailboat commitment elsewhere. Two boats is a bit of a stretch.

 

[Portland Billy]

Hi,

I'm toying with idea of having a small power boat on tidal Thames and potentially take paying passengers from time to time. I know that if it comes to that it requires proper licensing with PLA and conforming to lots of rules. All standards are clear and not too hard to conform with the right attitude and a bit of dedication, but there is one stumbling block for me - Local Knowledge Endorsement. It seems like the only way of getting it is to spend 60 days on the river (and pass an exam) which is pretty hard to do if you don't already have a boat or if you are not a professional crew.

It's a long shot, but maybe there is someone who is regularly cruising tidal Thames already so that I could join you on weekends to get my experience and to help cover your fuel costs? Or maybe someone in the same position like me? (unlikely though...) Of course someone might suggest 'just buy a boat and gain experience', but it involves too much money for a temporary boat, and I do have another sailboat commitment elsewhere. Two boats is a bit of a stretch.

 

[Portland Billy]

If it is to be a viable commercial venture then perhaps employing an already qualified skipper may be an option, with yourself as crew, until you gain the required certification.
Where would you intend operating from, and what size vessel?

 

[Gedimin]

Employing a skipper would mean committing a lot from day one (and even before), while trying it it myself would make it much more lean. Also, I am not convinced that a hired skipper would go above and beyond with customers like I would do myself. I would most certainly go to this model later though, if/when operations are established.

That'd be a small boat up to 6-8 passengers in central tidal reaches.

 

[Portland Billy]

 

[Portland Billy]

You could consider crewing for an existing operation to get the time in.
It may be possible to do this part time during the busy summer months.
I gather you are aiming at the luxury end of the market - several operators already doing this through top end hotels.

 

[oldgit]

Do know of folks who are doing boat hire on the tidal Thames/Medway , three specific examples, one is chartering a Princess V40 and charges around £1800.00 per day, the second takes passengers on bird watching trips, the third takes film crews out to the forts for adverts and other promotional work ie. for record companies.
Suspect they all have other incomes, have rarely seen the Princess out and about , the bird watch boat is usually only on the move in the summer months and the skipper of the boat doing the trips out to the forts has been doing it for 30 years and still drives a JCB when things are quiet.

You are going to need somewhere to keep this boat. Keeping it in a London marina will be hellish expensive and if you intend being able to cover the entire estuary,it will need to be blimming fast, folks are not going to be impressed with a 4 hour slog past oil refineries and interminal container terminals both there and back.
As for the Sea Reach in January with a nice easterly against a decent spring.
Unless of course you are hoping to stay above thr barrier, loads of competition up there from the ribs.
Who are you hoping to attract and what do you want to show them ?

 

[Gedimin]

I do think only about Putney to Barrier, or even shorter distance. The business model (if it proves to be correct) should cover £300-£500 per month for the mooring, I would not expect more for the boat of that size.

This topic is not about business model and what exactly I think to do, but rather about getting that necessary LKE certificate and relevant experience on Thames (I hope it does not sound rude)

 

[Portland Billy]

9 lol l9

 

[Portland Billy]

The only feasible way to get your time in is to seek employment with one of the river boat operators.
Very few of us actually spend much time in the tideway - usually passing through to greener pastures.

 

[oldgit]

Appreciate the need to get qualifications, the river can be very rough below Westminster, esp in small boat, have you ever been on one of the ribs.
Getting folks on and off your boat will need to be thought about as well and somewhere to park .
Any public piers ?

 

[No Regrets]

Your plan appears, on the face of the scant information you have provided, to have more holes in it than a peice of Swiss cheese.

Small boat, 8 passengers...its going to have to be a bit bigger than 'small' if you're going to punt it up and down such a busy and frenetic stretch of water, which gets rather rough at times, with high speed clippers, PLA launches with horrendous wash and the ever present Rib experience boats. You passengers will be crapping themselves at times.

You will want twin props too. If outboard the fuel bill will be horiffic, if outdrive the maintenance will, and berthing a 30' boat in London sounds more like £50 a day than the £16 you suggest, which wouldn't get you onto a Marina frontage on the Upper Thames let alone a tidal basin in one of the most expensive places in the UK, and thats if you manage to even fine a mooring!!

Have you owned boats? Are you aware how much hard work is involved in looking after one to hire standards, let alone all the equipment you'll need!?

 

[Parabordi]

Your plan appears, on the face of the scant information you have provided, to have more holes in it than a peice of Swiss cheese.

Small boat, 8 passengers...its going to have to be a bit bigger than 'small' if you're going to punt it up and down such a busy and frenetic stretch of water, which gets rather rough at times, with high speed clippers, PLA launches with horrendous wash and the ever present Rib experience boats. You passengers will be crapping themselves at times.

You will want twin props too. If outboard the fuel bill will be horiffic, if outdrive the maintenance will, and berthing a 30' boat in London sounds more like £50 a day than the £16 you suggest, which wouldn't get you onto a Marina frontage on the Upper Thames let alone a tidal basin in one of the most expensive places in the UK, and thats if you manage to even fine a mooring!!

Have you owned boats? Are you aware how much hard work is involved in looking after one to hire standards, let alone all the equipment you'll need!?

What he says!

 

[Murv]

Try Alex Hickman at the company of Watermen and Lightermen, he'll be able to advise if one of the operators is likely to be able to provide the ride-a longs that you'll need.
You'll also learn a massive amount, not only what all the wharves, reaches and ait's are, but alternative names that locals may know them as.

watermenscompany.com/thames-career/trainees/

 

[Gedimin]

Try Alex Hickman at the company of Watermen and Lightermen, he'll be able to advise if one of the operators is likely to be able to provide the ride-a longs that you'll need.
You'll also learn a massive amount, not only what all the wharves, reaches and ait's are, but alternative names that locals may know them as.

watermenscompany.com/thames-career/trainees/

Thank you for valuable advice!

 

[Gedimin]

Your plan appears, on the face of the scant information you have provided, to have more holes in it than a peice of Swiss cheese.

Small boat, 8 passengers...its going to have to be a bit bigger than 'small' if you're going to punt it up and down such a busy and frenetic stretch of water, which gets rather rough at times, with high speed clippers, PLA launches with horrendous wash and the ever present Rib experience boats. You passengers will be crapping themselves at times.

You will want twin props too. If outboard the fuel bill will be horiffic, if outdrive the maintenance will, and berthing a 30' boat in London sounds more like £50 a day than the £16 you suggest, which wouldn't get you onto a Marina frontage on the Upper Thames let alone a tidal basin in one of the most expensive places in the UK, and thats if you manage to even fine a mooring!!

Have you owned boats? Are you aware how much hard work is involved in looking after one to hire standards, let alone all the equipment you'll need!?

There was never an intention to share all possible details of operations, the forum is not the place to seek advice in business. I have only asked a specific question about qualifications. Everything you highlighted - does make sense, and been taken care of.

 

[Thallac]

Ignore all the negative comments, there is certainly a gap in the market for charters. You can get the experience as a passenger on the thames clipper, just get a crew member to sign the voyage off. Also you can use these guys thameslke.co.uk
Good luck with your venture

 

[Momac]

I think you should look into the 60 day requirement in more detail. Does 60 days mean 60 x 24 hours ? Surely there is a minimum requirement relating to your involvement with a boat. I can’t imagine being a ferry passenger counts.

 

[PilotWolf]

I looked into it years ago and despite already having a boatmans licence it was almost impossible to get the required time.

Here even being a bar tender counts towards
your sea time If the company lie about your job role.

W.

 

[Gedimin]

Ignore all the negative comments, there is certainly a gap in the market for charters. You can get the experience as a passenger on the thames clipper, just get a crew member to sign the voyage off. Also you can use these guys thameslke.co.uk
Good luck with your venture

Thanks for support, although being passenger on Clipper will not count for sure The requirement of 60 days means literally stopping by control point 60 times, one on every day of your logged experience.
Thameslke website does not seem to be up to date, so I assumed they are not operating anymore