Exhaust muffler/water trap problem

[Eeyore]

I have a Warrior 35 with a blown exhaust system which pumped gallons of water into the boat. I'm now stranded in northern Borneo, out of the water with the engine, gearbox and shaft removed just to get at the offending part. It's an 'old' Vetus muffler/water trap (I think it's just a muffler) made of stainless steel. None of the Vetus 'new' plastic or GRP models will fit in the location of the old one and sadly there is NO other space in which to fit an alternative which is below the level of the water injection elbow. I am interested in any stainless steel fabricators in the UK who could make a replacement for me, two days on the internet hasn't achieved very much. I would also be very interested to hear from any other Warrior owners who may have had the same problem.

 

[knuterikt]

I have a Warrior 35 with a blown exhaust system which pumped gallons of water into the boat. I'm now stranded in northern Borneo, out of the water with the engine, gearbox and shaft removed just to get at the offending part. It's an 'old' Vetus muffler/water trap (I think it's just a muffler) made of stainless steel. None of the Vetus 'new' plastic or GRP models will fit in the location of the old one and sadly there is NO other space in which to fit an alternative which is below the level of the water injection elbow. I am interested in any stainless steel fabricators in the UK who could make a replacement for me, two days on the internet hasn't achieved very much. I would also be very interested to hear from any other Warrior owners who may have had the same problem.

If the muffler/water trap is beyond repair you could just cut it open and take some pictures & measures of the construction.
Any SS welder should be able to copy the old one based on drawings or pictures/measures or with the old one at hand.
Are there no welders where you are?

It's probably only a water trap as the water dampens the noise also, in other words not a complicated construction.

 

[charles_reed]

I have a Warrior 35 with a blown exhaust system which pumped gallons of water into the boat. I'm now stranded in northern Borneo, out of the water with the engine, gearbox and shaft removed just to get at the offending part. It's an 'old' Vetus muffler/water trap (I think it's just a muffler) made of stainless steel. None of the Vetus 'new' plastic or GRP models will fit in the location of the old one and sadly there is NO other space in which to fit an alternative which is below the level of the water injection elbow. I am interested in any stainless steel fabricators in the UK who could make a replacement for me, two days on the internet hasn't achieved very much. I would also be very interested to hear from any other Warrior owners who may have had the same problem.

Run the engine without it - you'll just make more noise.

Just make sure you have a gooseneck rising above any possible water-line (when heeling) and that you have an operating anti-siphon valve.

 

[KenMcCulloch]

We had a similar problem this year with the exhaust on our recently acquired Rival 38. The water trap is a S/S cylinder a little under 6" in diameter and about 10" long, and it had corroded through at the lowest point. Fortunately it wasn't too difficult to get at and we were able to have it repaired by a welder. Although this 'temporary' repair would probably be good for some time, we are having a new one fabricated from GRP by a specialist, but this is not a quick process, we ordered at the beginning of November and have been advised to expect delivery in January. Have a look at the ASAP supplies website to see if any of their standard range would fit?

 

[Tranona]

Think your exhaust was custom made. It is unlikely to be a Vetus. You might try Halyard Marine as they have a wider range of sizes and types of water traps.

 

[Bodach na mara]

I had a similar problem a few years ago when my water intake got blocked by a plastic bag and the plastic Waterlock melted. I was a mile away from Tarbert and sailed in there where I could not get a replacement that day. Passing a skip, I saw some plastic waste pipe and liberated a length suitable to join up the bits of plain exhaust. That did me for the rest of the season. There was no noticable increase in noise. I replaced the plastic in the winter with a short bit of 1 1/4 inch copper tube that I had in my scrap box.

 

[BabaYaga]

Run the engine without it - you'll just make more noise.

Just make sure you have a gooseneck rising above any possible water-line (when heeling) and that you have an operating anti-siphon valve.

Usually the purpose of the muffler/water lock is not only to reduce noise, but also to provide a volume for the cooling water left in the exhaust system on engine shut down. Without it, there is a risk that water enters the engine. Agree about gooseneck and anti syphon valve, but since the OP is out of the water, engine removed etc – better to get the trap replaced IMO.

 

[pohopetch]

You can get round this problem easily yourself by getting some chopped strand and woven mat and polyester resin (not epoxy for this job) and making a new GRP water lift muffler yourself. Use the old one as the basis for a mold - cut timber or polystyrene to fit the inside of the old muffler by cutting the old one in half (or what is left of it) and then join the pieces you make together to form a finished mold. Layup a thin layer of GRP over your mold and let this go off to form the surface of the finished mold. Layup the polyester and glass matt over it in several layers until thick enough to cut it in half to extract the mold. Then fit the two halves back together with mat and resin around the joint and some more layers over the whole thing - up to about 5mm in total. You can make very accurate inlets and outlets by using some pipe as a former for that part of the mold so you can clamp on the exhaust hose as normal. You can do this in a day easily and if something goes wrong in the sizing just cut the offending bit off and patch it with mat and resin. Many, many water lift mufflers are made this way and it is going to be a lot quicker and cheaper than sending away for something. You will probably find the locals have mat and polyester for patching their canoes. GRP is able to take the heat of the exhaust gas and water and will not melt like the plastic Vetus ones when they don't have enough water.

 

[William_H]

Repair muffler

You can get round this problem easily yourself by getting some chopped strand and woven mat and polyester resin (not epoxy for this job) and making a new GRP water lift muffler yourself. Use the old one as the basis for a mold - cut timber or polystyrene to fit the inside of the old muffler by cutting the old one in half (or what is left of it) and then join the pieces you make together to form a finished mold. Layup a thin layer of GRP over your mold and let this go off to form the surface of the finished mold. Layup the polyester and glass matt over it in several layers until thick enough to cut it in half to extract the mold. Then fit the two halves back together with mat and resin around the joint and some more layers over the whole thing - up to about 5mm in total. You can make very accurate inlets and outlets by using some pipe as a former for that part of the mold so you can clamp on the exhaust hose as normal. You can do this in a day easily and if something goes wrong in the sizing just cut the offending bit off and patch it with mat and resin. Many, many water lift mufflers are made this way and it is going to be a lot quicker and cheaper than sending away for something. You will probably find the locals have mat and polyester for patching their canoes. GRP is able to take the heat of the exhaust gas and water and will not melt like the plastic Vetus ones when they don't have enough water.

I would simply try to repair the old muffler with polyester resin and fibreglass. I feel sure there will be enough shape of the old muffler to enable fibre glass to be laid around it. I presume that the bottom of the ss has corroded out. By leaving the stainless steel in place you will provide some heat shield for the polyester resin and glass and I expect the connection tubes are intact. No good of course if the muffler is completely demolished.
I can recommend this outfit who are very experienced in small aircraft stainless steel exhaust and muffler repairs and rebuilding. Gavin Trotter is the welder a one time small sailing boat owner and very skilled. Might be expensive. Jandakot airport is 18km from Perth International airport with direct connections every day to Indonesia.
http://www.aerospacefabrication.com.au/
good luck olewill

 

[Eeyore]

Think your exhaust was custom made. It is unlikely to be a Vetus. You might try Halyard Marine as they have a wider range of sizes and types of water traps.

Thanks for the replies all. It most definitely is Vetus. It's clearly stamped W.H.DENOUDEN - VETUS. Getting a stainless steel fabricator to make up a new one has proven difficult (in the UK) and I've sent off drawings and photographs to a few! So far, only one has replied and is quoting mega bucks for one in 304 stainless (no good). There are no supplies of 316L here in Borneo, nor welders capable enough to make one in any case. I've toyed with the idea of making one with mat and resin, of which I'm a total nurd and worry about the temperatures and strength. Thanks for the advice from Pohopetch which I can follow in the main, though I'm not so sure about the mould making (doesn't polystyrene melt when you put resin on it?). The old box is usable to mould glass around it but an extra 12mm diameter would maybe cause problems in the location area. Also the external pipes are corroded, so plastic pipes would have to be used to a max OD of 40mm. Internally, it's simply one straight pipe inlet and a curved outlet pipe.
Maybe a homemade GRP one is the only option left open to me, but I'm far from confident!

 

[lynall]

Google Specialized Welding and engineering.



Lynall

 

[nimbusgb]

I have a specialized stainless fabricator that i have used. The only guarantee i can make about his work is that it will be immaculate, precise and expensive!

If you want me to pass a drawing on to him for a quote please pm me.

 

[Tranona]

Thanks for the replies all. It most definitely is Vetus. It's clearly stamped W.H.DENOUDEN - VETUS.

Apologies for questioning you. Have you looked at www.halyard.eu.com as they do both pot types and in line. Do you have a photo or schematic of your existing system?

 

[pohopetch]

If you're using polystyrene for the mold, cover it with plastic (cut up plastic bag) taped up with duck tape - the resin will come off that OK - do make sure its sealed so it doesn't dissolve as you say.

When I said use plastic pipes for the mold for the inlet and outlet, I did mean just as the mold - don't use the plastic as the final thing or they may melt if they're not the right plastic. As long as the plastic pipe is undersize on the final outside diameter you can then build up to the exact outside diameter required in GRP. Cut the plastic pipe mold formers in half along the long axis with a hacksaw first before laying up so you can get them out of the two half pieces of the muffler from the inside easily before you join the two final halves together. If you use plastic water or drain pipe plastic the GRP will unstick quite easily.

Good luck!

 

[savageseadog]

Dry the trap, line the space for the trap with polythene, put the trap into place and pour polyester or Epoxy strengthened a little with chopped glass strands (can be made be ctting up CSM).

 

[Bodach na mara]

If you're using polystyrene for the mold, cover it with plastic (cut up plastic bag) taped up with duck tape - the resin will come off that OK - do make sure its sealed so it doesn't dissolve as you say.

When I said use plastic pipes for the mold for the inlet and outlet, I did mean just as the mold - don't use the plastic as the final thing or they may melt if they're not the right plastic. As long as the plastic pipe is undersize on the final outside diameter you can then build up to the exact outside diameter required in GRP. Cut the plastic pipe mold formers in half along the long axis with a hacksaw first before laying up so you can get them out of the two half pieces of the muffler from the inside easily before you join the two final halves together. If you use plastic water or drain pipe plastic the GRP will unstick quite easily.

Good luck!

I once tried to make a float using a polystyrene former as a former/mould, covered with polythene sheet (fertilizer bag quality) taped on to protect the former from the resin. The idea was that the polystyrene would remain inside the structure and provide stiffening and buoyancy should the casing get punctured. It was a total failure. As I was laying up the mat and resin round the outside, I became aware that the whole thing was shrinking and collapsing as I worked. This was a long time ago and I asumed that the vapour from the resin was able to lenetrate the polythene wrap and start disolving the polystyrene former.

Accordingly, I would advise against using polystyrene in any part of a mould when working with polyester resin.

 

[stuey_two]

Re your concern about a fibreglass repair not being up to the temperatures concerned, ther should be no problem at all - that is why current Vetus (and other brand) water traps can be, and are, made from plastic.
The water trap exhaust temperature only becomes a problem if your exhaust injected cooling water stops flowing.
So, another vote for cladding the stainless remains with fibreglass.

 

[Blueboatman]

If halliard marine, this and other forums and the owners association all can't get the OP going again, may I suggest that he rows around the anchorage or dock starting g with the home built steel and older fibreglass cruising yachts?
There will be someone by the law of sailing average extremely competent at welding and or fibreglass lamination.
I would not hesitate to GRP one. And, turning a negative to a positive, at the same time order and fit an exhaust temperature alarm.
Best of luck in your searches..

 

[Eeyore]

Whilst on the verge of getting all the polyester resin and matting organised, a mate in the UK found a firm that would make me a new muffler - three and a half times thicker than the old one, but at a price! It, and all the other bits (flexible exhaust pipe, jubilee clips, stern gland packing etc) that are simply not available in Kudat, should be on their way to me early next week and I can then start to rebuild the entire transmission. Who would have a boat?

Thanks to everyone for the very welcome suggestions.