Exhaust alarm set temperature

AngusMcDoon

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This thread about exhaust alarms...

Exhaust alarms NASA EX1 or Silicone Marine

got me thinking that it's something I could add to my latest and greatest YAPP project. I'm going to try Silicon Marine who make these devices...

Home: Silicon Marine

to ask whether they will sell me a pair of just their transducers. If I can get readings onto my NMEA2000 bus then I don't need one of their boxes as both my i70s displays and Axiom MFD's will display the temperature and show a warning if things get too hot. I'm hoping that they are simple thermistors in the heat sensors and I can use a couple of spare pins on this YAPP project...

Anchor watcher YAPP - remote boat monitoring from a mobile phone

as analogue inputs which will convert the voltage reading to a temperature and send it out on the NMEA2000 bus.

It will need another spin of the PCB to add the connectors and a couple of voltage dividers. I'm wondering about the set temperature. Silicon Marine's instructions suggest that they default to 90 degrees C, but can be modified up or down to a user value. Is 90 degrees a reasonable value? Is it likely to need to be changed? The BlueBridge device linked above has no user interface and settings are sent as text messages to the device. I could add another for exhaust alarm temperature.

Interestingly NMEA2000 doesn't really seem to cope with what you'd think would be the most useful marine engine alarms. It has a whole zoo of different ones, but fails to have one for exhaust temperature. The closest ones are coolant temperature, which is pants because the engine control panel does that in an old fashioned analogue way, and low water flow alarm, which is likely to be the root cause, but isn't an over-temperature alarm. I sometimes wonder whether anyone from the NMEA has ever been on or owned a boat!

These are the available alarms...

Code:
union tN2kDD206 {
          uint16_t Status;
          struct {
              uint16_t CheckEngine:1;
              uint16_t OverTemperature:1;
              uint16_t LowOilPressure:1;
              uint16_t LowOilLevel:1;
              uint16_t LowFuelPressure:1;
              uint16_t LowSystemVoltage:1;
              uint16_t LowCoolantLevel:1;
              uint16_t WaterFlow:1;
              uint16_t WaterInFuel:1;
              uint16_t ChargeIndicator:1;
              uint16_t PreheatIndicator:1;
              uint16_t HighBoostPressure:1;
              uint16_t RevLimitExceeded:1;
              uint16_t EGRSystem:1;
              uint16_t ThrottlePositionSensor:1;
              uint16_t EngineEmergencyStopMode:1;
          } Bits;
          tN2kDD206(uint16_t _Status=0): Status(_Status) {};
};

union tN2kDD223 {
          uint16_t Status;
          struct {
              uint16_t WarningLevel1:1;
              uint16_t WarningLevel2:1;
              uint16_t LowOiPowerReduction:1;
              uint16_t MaintenanceNeeded:1;
              uint16_t EngineCommError:1;
              uint16_t SubOrSecondaryThrottle:1;
              uint16_t NeutralStartProtect:1;
              uint16_t EngineShuttingDown:1;
              uint16_t Manufacturer1:1;
              uint16_t Manufacturer2:1;
              uint16_t Manufacturer3:1;
              uint16_t Manufacturer4:1;
              uint16_t Manufacturer5:1;
              uint16_t Manufacturer6:1;
              uint16_t Manufacturer7:1;
              uint16_t Manufacturer8:1;
          } Bits;
          tN2kDD223(uint16_t _Status=0): Status(_Status) {};
          uint16_t operator= (uint16_t val) { Status=val & 0x00ff; return Status;}
};
 

Rappey

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I would think the temp would vary wildly from each engine type and the way its installed. I have a 4 cylinder diesel and I can't see mine getting to 30c as the outlet is luke warm.
I do have a large volume of cooling water passing through compared to other boats.
 

andsarkit

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This thread about exhaust alarms...

Exhaust alarms NASA EX1 or Silicone Marine

got me thinking that it's something I could add to my latest and greatest YAPP project. I'm going to try Silicon Marine who make these devices...

Home: Silicon Marine

to ask whether they will sell me a pair of just their transducers.
They mention platinum sensors so I think they use PT100 PRT sensors. These will need some type of interface such as this amplifier or this amplifier
 

Draystone

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Have you tried setting the Manufacturer warnings to see what (if anything) Raymarine do with them?

Pt100 is a good suggestion. Pt1000 is also a possibility.
 

AngusMcDoon

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I would think the temp would vary wildly from each engine type and the way its installed. I have a 4 cylinder diesel and I can't see mine getting to 30c as the outlet is luke warm.
I do have a large volume of cooling water passing through compared to other boats.

I'll add a configuration capability to the device to set the alarm temperature by SMS. The framework is there. It will only be a few lines of code. I'll store the set temperature in the non-volatile settings memory, then see in real life what a normal temperature is.
 

AngusMcDoon

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Have you tried setting the Manufacturer warnings to see what (if anything) Raymarine do with them?

Pt100 is a good suggestion. Pt1000 is also a possibility.

I've simulated the temperature and alarms already and both my i70s display and Axiom MFD can show the temperatures and both go into a beepy flashy frenzy when I generate an alarm. The text of the alarm on the displays is pretty much what is in the source code above - there's no user choice in the NMEA2000 message or the display. Strangely cancelling the alarm on an i70s does not cancel it on the Axiom or vice versa.

I'll give Silicon Marine a call today and report back if it's a PT-xxx type sensor.
 
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AngusMcDoon

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andsarkit

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Just spoken to Silicon Marine. Their transducers are PT1000. They will supply transducers only at £15 each.
That is a very good price as Pt1000 sensors are not cheap. Does it include the mounting clip as well?
Platinum sensors can be very accurate if the output is linearized but for your purposes a degree C either way will not matter.
 

AngusMcDoon

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That is a very good price as Pt1000 sensors are not cheap. Does it include the mounting clip as well?
Platinum sensors can be very accurate if the output is linearized but for your purposes a degree C either way will not matter.

Yes, it's for the transducer, cable and all the mounting kit to attach it to a rubber pipe, as in the picture on their website.
 

Minerva

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It will need another spin of the PCB to add the connectors and a couple of voltage dividers. I'm wondering about the set temperature. Silicon Marine's instructions suggest that they default to 90 degrees C, but can be modified up or down to a user value. Is 90 degrees a reasonable value? Is it likely to need to be changed? The BlueBridge device linked above has no user interface and settings are sent as text messages to the device. I could add another for exhaust alarm temperature.


I would think the temp would vary wildly from each engine type and the way its installed. I have a 4 cylinder diesel and I can't see mine getting to 30c as the outlet is luke warm.
I do have a large volume of cooling water passing through compared to other boats.

Presumably fit the sensors and record the temps during an hours motor at full revs. That'll give you max running temp, then add 10-20% extra for leeway and you'll have your set temperature for the alarm.

My guess is it'll be closer to or below 60º than 90º though
 

AngusMcDoon

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Presumably fit the sensors and record the temps during an hours motor at full revs. That'll give you max running temp, then add 10-20% extra for leeway and you'll have your set temperature for the alarm.

My guess is it'll be closer to or below 60º than 90º though

The Silicon Marine webpage suggests that the water in the exhaust pipe is usually pretty cool in our dreich weather, but I imagine that if the coolant water injected into the exhaust hose fails the temperature will rise pretty quickly and get very hot. That suggests that the actual set temperature probably doesn't matter much. The man from Silicon Marine was very helpful and informative on the phone earlier and seems genuinely interested in the use of his stuff in hobbyist projects. He was happy to supply different length cables on the two transducers I ordered as my interface box will be closer to one engine than the other.
 

BabaYaga

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Presumably fit the sensors and record the temps during an hours motor at full revs. That'll give you max running temp, then add 10-20% extra for leeway and you'll have your set temperature for the alarm.

My guess is it'll be closer to or below 60º than 90º though
I made a very simple alarm (no gauge) based on a bimetallic switch and closely monitored the temp at just after the injection on the bend. What I found was that the highest temperature occured a few minutes after the engine had been shut down (around 40 C).
 

AngusMcDoon

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Everything has been done before!

I've ordered 2 of the Silicon Marine sensors because they come with a handy clamp kit to get the sensor in the water/exhaust gas flow which will give a quick response in case of overheating rather than clamped on the outside of the hose. I use the plain ESP-IDF development environment and design my own PCBs. It's more pain that way, so keeps me out of trouble for longer :).
 

jamie N

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The sensor on mine is mounted with a tyrap holding to the stainless steel exhaust by the point where gas and water meet. The temp usually reads 20°-30°C, then up to about 40°C once the water's off and the heat from the engine's warming the metal, as Yaga stated. I've set an alarm for 60°C to indicate the water's failed, which as mine's cooled by an electric diaphragm pump, can be switched off and takes about a minute to set the alarm off.
I realise that it's not remotely similar to the OP's YAPP, but is a workmanlike alternative to his 'project' which I do admire! (y)
 
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