Excuse me, Mr President (non sailing)

Re: The Real Issue

I've suggested it before. Richard and Judy as presenters. A few experts to come on TV. A web site and chat forum of course. And we just vote for whatever. Simple. All polititians done away with overnight. David Frost can do the visiting other nations bit. Or why not Posh Spice!!

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THe american name for CNN is communist network news or Clinton network news, i personally find there reporting to be inane and boring, they take all the (dis)information they are fed as gospel, not one of the channels question anything, its pathetic really,so i watch BBC world IMHO its much more balanced, Wolf blitzer, Dan Rather they all seem to toe the party line.........and they call it the land of the free?!!!!!........keith

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Man or monkey?

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.bushorchimp.com>Bush or chimp?</A>



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Re: Man or monkey?

Does anyone there want Berlusconi? It's all right: he's house-trained and has been lobotomised so there's no danger he might come out with an original idea. Does a good line in rubbishy TV programmes with well-endowed lasses.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.comoy.com/saillinks.html>http://www.comoy.com/saillinks.html</A>
 
if it wasnt for america

we would all be speaking german now, and no it isnt stupid just a fact and for the "chattering classes" who think it is clever to to take the p out of the american president because of his accent shows you up for what you are.
they suffered the effects of the equivalent of a tactical nuke on sept 11 and it makes common sense to go around taking away the possibility of it happening again.

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Re: if it wasnt for america

With impeccable timing, this turned up in my inbox today. OK, it's tongue in cheek, but there are a few serious points in there.

"A Brief History of Germany

1871 - Bismark founds modern Germany.
1890 - Bismark sacked, warmonger Wilhelm II takes direct control.
1914 - Germany starts World War I
1914-1918 - Germany kills millions upon millions of people.
1917 - Germany force peace loving Americans to enter war.
1918 - Germany loses World War I.
1920's - Germans try democracy.
1933 - Germans reject democracy, allow Hitler to take power.
1939 - Germany starts World War II.
1939-1945 - Germany kills millions upon millions of people.
1941 - Germany force peace loving Americans to enter war.
1945 - Germany loses World War II.
1946 - Germans whine about lack of food, America gives billions in food
aid to feed them.
1947 - Germans whine about crappy economy, America gives billions in Marshall Plan aid to rebuild German economy.
1948-1949 - America puts ass on line and risks WW3 to save a few Berliners from Soviet hordes.
1949 - Federal Republic of Germany (West Germany) established.
1950's - America spends billions to defend West Germany from
Soviet hordes.
1950's - German 'economic miracle' occurs while America keeps watch on
Soviet hordes.
1955 - NATO formed to protect West Germany from Soviet hordes.
1960's - America spends billions to defend West Germany from Soviet hordes.
1960's - German students protest war in Vietnam and American civil rights.
1963 - American President John Kennedy makes "Ich bin ein Berliner" speech.
1970's - America spends billions to defend West Germany from
Soviet hordes.
1970's - Germans form the marxist terrorist group Red Army Faction
(RAF).
1970's - Leftist German guerrillas burn, loot, and plunder much of
West Germany.
1980's - America spends tens of billions to defend West Germany
from Soviet hordes.
1980's - German leftists bitch about Pershing II missiles.
1987 - American President Ronald Reagan makes "Mr. Gorbachev, tear
down this wall" speech.
1989 - Gorbachev tears down Berlin Wall.
1990 - German Reunification.
1990's - America spends tens of billions to defend Germany from
Islamic hordes.
1990's - Germany stands by as ethnic cleansing occurs in Balkans.
1993 - Germany joins European Union.
1995 - Americans send troops to Bosnia as Germans watch from the
sidelines.
1997 - Germans finally send troops to Bosnia.
1998 - Hardline, left-of-left socialists come to power under
Gerhard Schroeder.
1999 - Americans lead air war to save Kosovo as Germans watch from
the sidelines.
2001 - Schroeder offers solidarity to America after 9/11 attacks.
2002 - Schroeder bashes America to distract voters during election
campaign.
2003 - Germany sees rise in anti-Americanism after several decades
of poor treatment from America.

and you thought the French were a bunch of ungrateful *deleted* "

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Re: if it wasnt for america

You sell the Brits short, after the Battle of Britain I doubt that Hitler would have made it across the channel. The French though, a bunch of back stabing bastards, they would definitely have been speaking German. I can't think what they were thinking of when they gave them vito power. Vito should have gone to Britain, USA, Russia, Canada, Austrailia and New Zealand, and countries that aren't democracies should not get a seat at the UN.

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Re: if it wasnt for america

I think every ones missing the point here. America has self apointed it's self as World policeman. Now thats OK, as long as the rest of the world agree's. The problem is not so much Iraq. But what about after Iraq. The next conflict. Can America carry on going round the world, attacking who ever they see fit. Whether anyone else agrees or not. If that was to happen, we have just invented another Hitler, But far more powerfull. Also stiring up far more hatred of the Americans from around the world. There for creating more conflicts for the Americans to attack. Now Saddam is a problem, we all know that. But is he a big enough problem to risk this eventuality.

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Haydn
 
The US and UK haven\'t suffered like ...

I don't think it's a coincidence that all the nations who are opposed to war on Iraq have experienced foreign invasion and occupation within the lifetime of their older citizens - so their view counts.

The UK and the US have been 'fortunate' in this respect - even though many of their soldiers and civilians died as well.

I also tend to think it was the sacrifices of the people of the Soviet Union that won the second world war as much as that of the US and the UK .



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Re: Oh Really !!!

Perhaps one or two facts to ponder.

1 The Soviet Union was allied to Hitler until 1941. Actively so, supplied him with oil for the panzers that rolled over Poland France etc.

2 The people in Ukraine welcomed the German army as "liberators" after the suffering they endured under Stalin

3 The infamous Murmansk run where we, the British and to a lesser extent Americans supplied USSR with food and arms at enormous cost in lives.

4 At no time during WW2 did the USSR have more troops fighting the Germans than were employed on "internal security" ie oppressing their own people.

5 Had Stalin not killed virtually the entire officer corp of the Red Army in the 1930s the suffering of the Russian people (actually more the Ukrainian, Belorussian and Georgian people) would have been much less.

6 At a conservative estimate Stalin killed over 20 million of his own population, more than Hitler managed.

7 The UK and US liberated the countries we over-run in driving out the Germans, the USSR enslaved them. all the way until 1990. Remember 1956 Hugary, 1968 Czechoslavakia.

8 Whilst not actually invaded, there are plenty of people who will describe in vivid detail what it is like to be bombed, perhaps you have forgotten the Blitz.

Simple test question - given the choice where would you most like to live:-

Iraq under Saddam
USSR under Stalin
USA under Bush

Bet I can guess the answer.

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Yes really!!

Knowing the sensitivity of this kind of subject, I specifically talked about 'the sacrifices of the Soviet people' and not the actions of their leaders.

But my main point was that neither we in the UK or the US have ever experienced foreign troops in our streets - and, yes, my relations on the continent feared the invading Russians more than the Germans.





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Re: I didn\'t start this but..

Your argument would seem to indicate that democracies throughout the world should be engaging in war with the US. The US meets all of your criteria in that they possess weapons of mass destruction. They have proliferated them among various other countries. They have actually used them against adversaries. They have expressed a contempt for the pleadings of the United Nations.
In view of all this it would seem that the United States should be deemed a pariah among nations.
Comment?

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Re: But!!

I think the countries that were 'invaded' by USA, did better after the war then UK.
The 'Marshall Plan' - for example; Germany & Japan.

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Re: And another thing

Right On.

It seems so obvious that Bush is being played by Texas Oil Barons. Yes Iraq is a terroist threat so are loads of other people. There are attrocities going on all over some US backed, why are we going to attack Iraq because of Oil !!

I cant understand why more people arn't saying this more openly, occasionally some one puts the piont in question time then teh debate moves,

If the US can spend Billions in aid to 'buy' Security Council votes added to the cost of the war, how much are they planning to make from the oil ?


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