Excited and happy ( but a little bit scared)

Ask yourself how much money it could swallow without nice things that you get to see and enjoy:

New engine - "reconditioned" and "rebuilt" are bad signs, not good
New stern gear
New tanks
Rewire
Replumb
New batteries
All new skin fittings
New hoses throughout

None of that you get to see, it doesn't enhance your boating pleasure, it just stops it being ruined. And all that will cost you £35,000 and add just £5,000 to the resale value at most. Now how do you feel about the boat? Still like the idea then go for it, plenty do and don't regret it but have that £35,000 ready, you're going to need it.

Then be like a terrier at a rat about that extensive work on the hull, man that would scare me stupid.
 
Malabarista said:
Thanks. Yes we have spent a fair few hours aboard her both with and without the broker. She needs a lot of cleaning and we intend to fit her out over the next 3-4 years and then fulfil our dream of sailing 'til we just can't sail no more.
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Assuming you go ahead, I'm not sure this is the best approach. Our boat needed, and still does, work to "get her right". We bought her in 2008 and have sailed her extensively doing a job or two a winter, in addition to normal maintenance, towards our goal. The big advantage is that you are more likely to get the improvements correct in the light of experience actually sailing the boat: and also discover what works well that initially you were going to discard. Moreover you will have had the benefit of 3/4 years sailing which would be lost if you had the misfortune to have serious illness down the line after you had done all the work.
 
I'm thinking that trying to squeeze in both a pro survey AND a sea trial on the same day is likely to 'sell someone short'. The surveyor, if first, may well want several hours to do his ( her? there's a good lady surveyor at Bursledon Bridge ) peeking and poking.... and for that, the boat should be out of the water.

If the surveyor is prevented from a proper and detailed inspection of the hull, keel and **sterngear**, then IMHO that is NOT going to give you the information, the opinion, and the Professional Indemnity to which you should be entitled.

If you then have just a few short hours to sail up and down Southampton Water, then again you will have a superficial impression, and perhaps a rushed decision.

Could you not re-arrange these two essential tasks for two different days? And have the surveyors report in your hand before you sail on her.

That apart, plenty of folk have taken a Manky Auld Boat and sailed her for several seasons while putting right the several things they wanted to improve. Your ideas sound, to me, to be wholly practicable and reasonable.....
provided this boat is in need only of TLC and not major-parts surgery.

There are plenty of good but unloved boats. This is but one of them..... and the Used Boat Show on the Hamble later in September might be a very good event for such as you.
 
Kurrawong_Kid said:
Assuming you go ahead, I'm not sure this is the best approach. Our boat needed, and still does, work to "get her right". We bought her in 2008 and have sailed her extensively doing a job or two a winter, in addition to normal maintenance, towards our goal. The big advantage is that you are more likely to get the improvements correct in the light of experience actually sailing the boat: and also discover what works well that initially you were going to discard. Moreover you will have had the benefit of 3/4 years sailing which would be lost if you had the misfortune to have serious illness down the line after you had done all the work.
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Yes I suppose I could have expressed myself a little better. We intend to sail her AND work on her. In fact if all goes well with the survey, sea trial and explanation from the owners we plan on sailing her the following weekend down to Rye. We shall have not one but two very experienced Yachtmasters on board ( also long term friends) with whom we have had many adventures over the years. Thanks for your advice.
 
oldbilbo said:
I'm thinking that trying to squeeze in both a pro survey AND a sea trial on the same day is likely to 'sell someone short'. The surveyor, if first, may well want several hours to do his ( her? there's a good lady surveyor at Bursledon Bridge ) peeking and poking.... and for that, the boat should be out of the water.

If the surveyor is prevented from a proper and detailed inspection of the hull, keel and **sterngear**, then IMHO that is NOT going to give you the information, the opinion, and the Professional Indemnity to which you should be entitled.

If you then have just a few short hours to sail up and down Southampton Water, then again you will have a superficial impression, and perhaps a rushed decision.

Could you not re-arrange these two essential tasks for two different days? And have the surveyors report in your hand before you sail on her.

That apart, plenty of folk have taken a Manky Auld Boat and sailed her for several seasons while putting right the several things they wanted to improve. Your ideas sound, to me, to be wholly practicable and reasonable.....
provided this boat is in need only of TLC and not major-parts surgery.

There are plenty of good but unloved boats. This is but one of them..... and the Used Boat Show on the Hamble later in September might be a very good event for such as you.
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Hi
The survey is being carried out over two days and if our surveyor needs more time then the sea trial will have to be delayed. I think in this case that a meeting onboard with the current owners will be very useful even if on this occasion we don't get to take her out. We have a lot to talk about.
Thanks for your advice
 
Then be like a terrier at a rat about that extensive work on the hull, man that would scare me stupid.

We have been lead to believe that the work was carried out at a very reputable yard and was fully surveyed after it was finished. Indeed a full survey was carried at this time and we have a copy of this. Do you think that there could still be problems?
If so i would imagine that our prepurchase survey ( on Thursday/Friday ) would uncover any existing problems. She will be lifted on Thursday morning so i hope to know more then
Cheers for the opinion
 
Things that have not been mentioned as part of the sea trial in particular... How does she handle? How difficult/easy does she go astern? How can you get down to a pontoon from the deck? How difficult is it to reach over the bows to pick up a mooring? How does she sail?

Gladys has a ply wheelhouse that was installed a few owners ago, and when I saw her, I was extremely concerned about how that impacted sailing, and that was the point of the sea trial for me, but I got so much more out of it than just that, particularly handling under power, coming alongside a pontoon was a joy
 
oldbilbo said:
And get the vendor to agree to answer your questions after sale.....

Enjoi! :D
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Good luck from me too.

I have just bought another vessel. It is well and truly in commission, the present owner on board many days, but has a home ashore after cruising 10 years.

He has put the boat up at a bargain price, so I decided not to offer any lower, it's worth the price and more. He is available to talk me thru all systems, so why should I insult him and the boat by screwing the price down? He has agreed to a small reduction for the sails not being too good, after the trial sail. I decided to keep him on side. Sails are after all, like tyres on a motor vehicle. They wear out, so get replacements and put them on.

This is something we can do without much pain at the present, second-hand boat prices being what they are.


(Edit to add) I had only read Page 1 of this thread when I replied. Which hyperspaces me to page 4. I will read pages 2 and 3 now, I hope they are not too much horror!
 
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Gladys said:
Things that have not been mentioned as part of the sea trial in particular... How does she handle? How difficult/easy does she go astern? How can you get down to a pontoon from the deck? How difficult is it to reach over the bows to pick up a mooring? How does she sail?

Gladys has a ply wheelhouse that was installed a few owners ago, and when I saw her, I was extremely concerned about how that impacted sailing, and that was the point of the sea trial for me, but I got so much more out of it than just that, particularly handling under power, coming alongside a pontoon was a joy
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Although presumably you should not expect to get your deposit back if you rejected a boat at sea trial just because you decided it didn't suit you after all?
 
All this talk of dictaphones and cameras is so last century. All you need nowadays is you (smart) phone.
Pasarell said:
I echo oldbilbos comments and sentiments above. Exciting times! The Dictaphone suggestion is very good as taking notes will shorten the time available for talking dramatically. Also take a camera.
First thing I would do is join the Moody Owners Association and ask the same questions there. There is a guest member level which gives you access to lots of information and you can ask questions of existing owners pre buying the boat. You can also look at all the archives for information and questions about this model in the past. www.moodyowners.org
I've just gone through process of buying a Moody 44 but 1997 version and not my first boat. I spent 2 days crawling over the boat (low confidence in surveyors) then several conversations with the old owner. Getting the old owner to be available for later questions is important on a boat this size and especially the age of yours. I'm sure you will have lots more questions after a month of ownership.
Good luck and hope all goes well
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When I sold Anemone to someone from the IoM, I agreed to come with him to deliver her. He found this very useful as we had plenty of time to go over all the systems. I had a good final cruise, a short stay in Douglas and a free return trip.
A couple of things stopped working on the trip, water pump (loose connection) and bog (new gasket set), it was useful to the new owner to see how these were fixed.
 
Nooka said:
Although presumably you should not expect to get your deposit back if you rejected a boat at sea trial just because you decided it didn't suit you after all?
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The first time I looked at a yacht of any serious price, from a broker, was about 20 years ago. The broker wanted a deposit (10 or 15% as I recall) before he would present an offer to the seller. He stressed that it would be repayable in full if the sale was not completed. I found shortly later that our american friends referred to this as "earnest money". That is, it showed that the buyer was "in earnest" in the buying process.
In my recent purchase, the broker presented my offer to the seller without asking for a deposit. I was offering the asking price as I said above, so it was a foregone conclusion that it would be accepted. Then the broker asked for a 10% deposit before allowing the vessel to be surveyed and trialled. He told me that this was to protect the surveyor, and the yard for the cost of the lift-out. He was clear and definite that the deposit would be all returned if I did not want the vessel after trial and survey, and that I would not have to justify that choice in any way.
He is a member of a brokers' professional association and has been in business at the same site for 20 years that I know of. So that is enough satisfaction for me, that he is a "reputable broker".
Frankly, I think it would take quite a lengthy trial to find out if you liked a certain yacht's handling characteristics. In my case, I had sailed a very very similar yacht offshore on a delivery voyage in weather that varied from calm to severe, mostly from forward of beam. So I don't think it will give me any huge surprises.
So that is what I believe would be standard practice in Queensland Australia at this time. I would be interested to know what goes on in the UK.

I also bought another vessel at a marine auction 2 years ago. That was a much less satisfactory experience.
 
BobPrell said:
The first time I looked at a yacht of any serious price, from a broker, was about 20 years ago. The broker wanted a deposit (10 or 15% as I recall) before he would present an offer to the seller. He stressed that it would be repayable in full if the sale was not completed. I found shortly later that our american friends referred to this as "earnest money". That is, it showed that the buyer was "in earnest" in the buying process.
In my recent purchase, the broker presented my offer to the seller without asking for a deposit. I was offering the asking price as I said above, so it was a foregone conclusion that it would be accepted. Then the broker asked for a 10% deposit before allowing the vessel to be surveyed and trialled. He told me that this was to protect the surveyor, and the yard for the cost of the lift-out. He was clear and definite that the deposit would be all returned if I did not want the vessel after trial and survey, and that I would not have to justify that choice in any way.
He is a member of a brokers' professional association and has been in business at the same site for 20 years that I know of. So that is enough satisfaction for me, that he is a "reputable broker".
Frankly, I think it would take quite a lengthy trial to find out if you liked a certain yacht's handling characteristics. In my case, I had sailed a very very similar yacht offshore on a delivery voyage in weather that varied from calm to severe, mostly from forward of beam. So I don't think it will give me any huge surprises.
So that is what I believe would be standard practice in Queensland Australia at this time. I would be interested to know what goes on in the UK.

I also bought another vessel at a marine auction 2 years ago. That was a much less satisfactory experience.
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Much the same over here Bob. Only difference is you have to put up with hundreds of ''Winging Poms'' mate :)
 
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