V1701
Well-Known Member
Ask previous owner, maybe he can shed some light?
Excessive mast rake (with pic)?
- Thread starter irati
- Start date
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Suggest follow Selden's advice. Start by measuring mast rake using a weight on a halyard. Boat load won't make too much difference for an initial rough view. But it will show if the mast is near upright or well out of column.
Bosun Higgs
N/A
Excessive rake of the mast will cause excessive weather helm because it moves the centre of effort of the sails further back and causes the boat to try and pivot round its centre of resistance and into the wind. However, you do want some weather helm so your mast foot is designed to allow some adjustment to mast rake.
20 inches rake has been mentioned . Thats quite a lot but not a totally silly figure on a 35 ft boat. On yours I would think its a good 5 to 7 inches too much. That means that the front gap to the deck on your mast will be greater than the gap at the rear of the mast heel fitting. Rake is nothing to do with racing.
Do you have a connecting plate between the bottom of your roller reefing and the bow roller where it is fixed? If so, are you sure its the right one? Are there other mounting holes that move the bottom of the forestay down and forwards?.
What you really need is to find an owner of a Halcyon 27 and compare notes inc dimensions.
20 inches rake has been mentioned . Thats quite a lot but not a totally silly figure on a 35 ft boat. On yours I would think its a good 5 to 7 inches too much. That means that the front gap to the deck on your mast will be greater than the gap at the rear of the mast heel fitting. Rake is nothing to do with racing.
Do you have a connecting plate between the bottom of your roller reefing and the bow roller where it is fixed? If so, are you sure its the right one? Are there other mounting holes that move the bottom of the forestay down and forwards?.
What you really need is to find an owner of a Halcyon 27 and compare notes inc dimensions.
William_H
Well-Known Member
Mast Rake
it seems to me that many posters have put the cart before the horse.
Mast rake should be set up to suit the boat and as said just a little rake as related to the hull water line.
If you find then that the mast base seems to have a high point loading as in the photo you should remove the base from the cabin top and pack the front to give an even load on the base. The cabin top is almost certainly not level so some packing is needed. At the same time check the structure in case it has deteriorated. good luck olewill
it seems to me that many posters have put the cart before the horse.
Mast rake should be set up to suit the boat and as said just a little rake as related to the hull water line.
If you find then that the mast base seems to have a high point loading as in the photo you should remove the base from the cabin top and pack the front to give an even load on the base. The cabin top is almost certainly not level so some packing is needed. At the same time check the structure in case it has deteriorated. good luck olewill
Strathglass
Well-Known Member
I think what you are saying is correct.
I think, as you say, that the top of the cabin top is not horizontal and the mast step need to be packed up.
I had an exactly a similar situation when I was fitting the through deck mast coller to my coachroof with my keel stepped mast.
The collar, when my boat was originally designed, was fabricated from stainless steel and shaped to compensate for the slope on the coach roof and when fitted there was a horizontal hole through it to give proper suport to the mast at deck level.
When I bought my hull the hole for the mast had not been cut and I did not have one of the original mast collars assemblies.
The mast kit I bought was a Sparcraft 306 which was supplied with a three piece cast alloy collar, which was a tight fit on the mast. It was such a precise fit that the base the coller sat on had to be horizontal.
To compensate for the slope in the coachroof I ended up sitting the collar on a tapered iroko spacer. This ensured that the collar sat truely horizontal.
I think that the mast step on the OP's boat has always been mounted as shown in the photo and needs some form of wedge under it to bring it perpendicular to the mast heel.
Without a photo showing the actual mast rake and some measurements to know the precisely how far aft it leans one can only guess at the full extent of the problem.
If the top if the coachroof is in fact horizontal then with the amount of mast rake I can deduce from looking at the photo I would think that the end of the boom must be almost touching the cockpit floor when the main is hoisted.
The original poster needs to hang a heavy weight from the end ot the main hailyard and check that it hangs at an absolute maximum of no more than 12" behind the mast at gooseneck height when the boat is floating before adjusting any rigging.
A quick way of checking whether things are about right is to see if the boom is about parallel with the water when the main is hoisted.
Iain
philiphurst
Well-Known Member
Had a problem with excessive mast rake on my boat. It turned out that the forestay had been attached to the wrong point on the mast. Usual three attachment points (spin, gen, forestay) on the one fitting, all the same size on the one cast fitting.
And, yes, it was my mistake!
And, yes, it was my mistake!
Seajet
...
William H & Strathglass,
you're possibly forgetting that the OP has also complained of excessive weather helm.
An over-raked mast will cause this by moving the Centre of Effort of the rig too far aft of the Centre of Lateral Resistance of the underwater profile.
It does look as if the rig has been like this for a while, but that doesn't mean it's right !
Rigs are often raked in an effort to improve pointing to windward, but it would seem the previous owner got this one wrong; shortened forestay and adjustment on shrouds and backstay required.
The Halcyon isn't the sort of boat to play about with the rig to the extent displayed at the mast step, the angle of which ( as long as nothing is deformed ) shows what the designer intended.
you're possibly forgetting that the OP has also complained of excessive weather helm.
An over-raked mast will cause this by moving the Centre of Effort of the rig too far aft of the Centre of Lateral Resistance of the underwater profile.
It does look as if the rig has been like this for a while, but that doesn't mean it's right !
Rigs are often raked in an effort to improve pointing to windward, but it would seem the previous owner got this one wrong; shortened forestay and adjustment on shrouds and backstay required.
The Halcyon isn't the sort of boat to play about with the rig to the extent displayed at the mast step, the angle of which ( as long as nothing is deformed ) shows what the designer intended.
Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
Mast rake is not a difficult thing to spot. Just look at the boat from a few boat lengths away on the beam. The kind of rake being suggested should be plainly obvious.
Perhaps in it's chequered past someone has fitted some shrouds from another boat or had some made up to measurements, which where wrong.
As I and others have mentioned. Go back to the beginning and set it up from scratch.
If you said where your boat is perhaps someone (sensible) would pop along and have a look.
Perhaps in it's chequered past someone has fitted some shrouds from another boat or had some made up to measurements, which where wrong.
As I and others have mentioned. Go back to the beginning and set it up from scratch.
If you said where your boat is perhaps someone (sensible) would pop along and have a look.
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Bosun Higgs
N/A
The mast doesnt look like the original on a boat that old. It could have been re-masted and given the boats value that could have been done using second hand. Could be the wrong length forestay.
What the OP needs is some sound base data. Given that the builder is long gone, he will only get that from another owner preferably of an original boat. Once he knows roughly what rake is needed / the length of the forestay the rest should be easy to work out.
What the OP needs is some sound base data. Given that the builder is long gone, he will only get that from another owner preferably of an original boat. Once he knows roughly what rake is needed / the length of the forestay the rest should be easy to work out.
AntarcticPilot
Well-Known Member
pjobson
Active Member
Mast Rake
Does it look as bad as this chap who we met in Panama? He successfully circumnavigated with a mast like this.
Does it look as bad as this chap who we met in Panama? He successfully circumnavigated with a mast like this.
PeteCooper
Well-Known Member
As has already been mentioned - that isn't the original mast so when replacing the original it may be that the rigging lengths were cut incorrectly.