ExCeL rip off!

[Richard Shead]

Going round in circles.
Punters and exhibitors (substantial number of them BMF members) pay through the nose.
Punters and increasingly exhibitors start to stay away.
Exhibitors/BMF members do less business at boat shows.
Who wins?

Who says they pay through the nose???

NBS owned by BMF, funds from both shows go to fund the federation which is there fore the members., the BMF does not make a profit (well it tries not to)

Yes its an expenses show to stage as you are moving huge pieces of machinery into large halls!!

But as a show its not too bad for space rates in the scheme of things.

 

[Flying Penguin]

Going round in circles.
Punters and exhibitors (substantial number of them BMF members) pay through the nose.
Punters and increasingly exhibitors start to stay away.
Exhibitors/BMF members do less business at boat shows.
Who wins?

Not quite. You are assuming there is no price point at which it can both profit and maintain attendance, which is not what has been shown as you haven't been able to isolate it from the wider economic issues.

The alternate timeline:
Show runs at a complete break even.
Levies on BMF members rise to compensate
Membership declines amongst businesses, resulting in lower income
BMF reduces membership services and lobbying activities
BMF membership becomes less attractive, resulting in a downward spiral
BMF folds or becomes irrelevant

 

[oldbilbo]

That was the first weekend, the second was significantly better.

On Tuesday 10th, speaking with an exhibitor and remarking on the paucity of people, he thought turnout was a little better that day, but "On Monday morning, when we all stood watching the shutters roll up to admit the paying public, there was a surge forward.... of just 1."

There were, at times, more security types around than showgoers. One is tempted to suspect those 'attendance figures' include everyone whose badge and ticket was swiped day after day - which encompasses all the exhibitors, the catering people, the cleaners, the 'blazer brigade', the food delivery/resupply crews, the security wonks and 'responders', and the 'sniffer dog'.

I'm sure I saw some tumbleweed rolling down one of the aisles....

But I did enjoy my full day there.

 

[Tidewaiter2]

A slight inaccuracy in your phrasing, One feels?

Like raggies vs mobos, usually the yacht costs a lot less, still they think they are superior

Wadda mean THINK

And One hardly ever hears from a mobo on an anchor or Ensign Fred!

 

[Seajet]

Except the punters are being driven away; if I was an exhibitor I might have something to say about that, as I'd rather like lots of people to come and look at my kit & buy it, having gone to the considerable trouble & expense of being there.

Even without the recession, I'd think it clear something has to change.

 

[chinita]

Like raggies vs mobos, usually the yacht costs a lot less, still they think they are superior

Thank you for telling us all what we think.

 

[pvb]

Yes its an expenses show to stage as you are moving huge pieces of machinery into large halls!!

But don't the exhibitors pay for that, in addition to the space rental? So it doesn't cost the BMF to shift the boats.

But as a show its not too bad for space rates in the scheme of things.

But the MCC show is charging less than half the price for stand space, at the same venue.

 

[Richard Shead]

On Tuesday 10th, speaking with an exhibitor and remarking on the paucity of people, he thought turnout was a little better that day, but "On Monday morning, when we all stood watching the shutters roll up to admit the paying public, there was a surge forward.... of just 1."

There were, at times, more security types around than showgoers. One is tempted to suspect those 'attendance figures' include everyone whose badge and ticket was swiped day after day - which encompasses all the exhibitors, the catering people, the cleaners, the 'blazer brigade', the food delivery/resupply crews, the security wonks and 'responders', and the 'sniffer dog'.

I'm sure I saw some tumbleweed rolling down one of the aisles....

As did most on the first Monday........but as you well know we hit our targets and I can only go what my till tells me and it tells me I had a better show at the end than the beginning....

Others had a shocking show but they have also had a shocking couple of years...

Any other business out there 10 - 15 or even 20% down?

Right off for that black and white argument again...

Exhibitor movements will always be in the region of 10,000, always have always will and this will be included in the figures stated.

Its like being in the x files on here....there is no conspiracy theory to be had here and trust me I am big into them so would be the first to pull the show apart in the hope of finding one....

 

[Richard Shead]

But don't the exhibitors pay for that, in addition to the space rental? So it doesn't cost the BMF to shift the boats.



But the MCC show is charging less than half the price for stand space, at the same venue.

I dont have those rates to hand but would be interested to see them.

The BMF have to pay for the venue, all other associated costs are paid for by the exhibitor and they have come down in recent times but no different to any other expo hall really.

To add it also takes far longer to build the show in terms of getting it all in and out adding to the venue costs. Last boats come out Saturday, thats nearly a week after the show closes.

Take the crash test boat, two days of labour to get it in and out, one lorry each way, and two cranes for two days plus 5 men for the craneage alone. All for a feature ( a good one) for people to look at!

The MCC also does very well on sponsorship.

 

[pvb]

I dont have those rates to hand but would be interested to see them.

They're here on the MCC website.

 

[Twister_Ken]

[mind of an ExCel executive]

Average shiny new caravan/motorhome = £50k (I'm guessing here)

Average shiny new boat = £150k (guessing again)

ergo... rich boaty folk's pips start squeaking at three times the level of grungy caravaners...

[/mind of an ExCel executive]

No, not ExCel, they just rent the space to National Boat Shows, which is part of the British Marine Federation. Guess it's the BMF that sets the door price.

 

[Koeketiene]

Who says they pay through the nose???

I know of a large(-ish) chandler, a marine engineering firm and a sail loft who all refuse to attend boat shows because 'there's no money in it'.
The cost to exhibit was the major deterrent.

To be fair: the engineering firm does exhibit at SIBS, but not LIBS.

 

[Boat Shows]

As the BMF we are run overall as a not-for-profit organisation, with all money raised in the running of Shows reinvested in the industry in a number of ways, as our board – made up of representatives of the industry – asks us to.

Regarding the entry price to the Show, £20 was the walk up on the door price. Simply logging onto our website would have given you a £16 advance price, and there were numerous other deals promoted in the run up to the Show with even more discounts.

The parking charges are levelled by ExCeL, not NBS, and we understand that the NCC have bought the rights to all of the carpark during their Show from ExCeL. Were we to do the same the cost would have to be recouped somewhere.

Naturally, because we represent the industry we are keen to keep the stand costs as low as possible to enable as many companies as possible to exhibit. However, the very nature of boats means that we have to do many things that the Caravan Show will not have to do. For example our build up starts well before Christmas, and we will not have cleared the halls this week. We have to pay for all of that time, and the extra staff we require for the running of a Show, for all of that time whereas the Caravan Show will almost certainly only need access a couple of days – a week at most - before they open their doors.

The Boat Show is simply a much more expensive Show to put on.

 

[Koeketiene]

BMF folds or becomes irrelevant

You mean it's relevant now?
Where was the BMF when Peters Opal folded?

 

[Twister_Ken]

You mean it's relevant now?
Where was the BMF when Peters Opal folded?

Ha! Good question!

Or what has the BMF done about Reliance Yacht Deliveries (or whatever it's called this week)?

 

[Flying Penguin]

You mean it's relevant now?
Where was the BMF when Peters Opal folded?

All right, MORE irrelevant. I'm not familiar with the details behind Peters Opal, but it's a bit much to assume that a trade federation membership should be a magic cure for a failing business.

 

[Twister_Ken]

All right, MORE irrelevant. I'm not familiar with the details behind Peters Opal, but it's a bit much to assume that a trade federation membership should be a magic cure for a failing business.

Even if the chairman of the failing organisation is also chair of the BMF? Yes, I can see that could pose a problem.

 

[Flying Penguin]

Even if the chairman of the failing organisation is also chair of the BMF? Yes, I can see that could pose a problem.

As I said, I'm not close enough to the BMF/Peters Opal issue to comment on Mr Peters' suitability for the role.

 

[Richard Shead]

Who says they pay through the nose???

NBS owned by BMF, funds from both shows go to fund the federation which is there fore the members., the BMF does not make a profit (well it tries not to)

Yes its an expenses show to stage as you are moving huge pieces of machinery into large halls!!

But as a show its not too bad for space rates in the scheme of things.

Appologies phat fingers and iPhone auto correct ! Will sort on morn.

 

[Glisferox]

Costs

It's been a while, but when I was regularly involved in building stands for big, wealthy companies the space was about £700 per square metre, with build costs about the same.

This was for a 2 to 3 day build with a 3 to 4 day show.

LIBS's build will be a damned site longer and require more work from the organisers than simply marking out the stands on the floor – all those flat irons to park. Sadly the cost needs to be recovered somewhere and I guess we're it. I suppose we are viewed as wealthy b******s who can afford it.

The cost of these places is terrifying, about 15 years ago the QEII centre, a veritable postage stamp in comparison to Excel threatened to charge us an 6K for an extra 3 hours if we didn't get out in time.