EU rules on UK boats and the 18 months - latest

[benjenbav]

I just had a chat with the German customs, I asked them if Germany had the same understanding as Spain when it comes to taking your out 12-miles to reset the Temporary Admission.. And they said and I quote:

Yes, Germany has essentially the same understanding. If goods are taken beyond the 12-mile zone, they are regarded as having left the customs territory. However, please note that inward processing always requires the lodging of a re-export declaration.

I didn't get the last sentence, but it seems German understanding of the 12-mile limit is same as countries such as Spain.
So, take the boat out, record chartplotter, bring it back in and gain 18 months?

You’re then into an issue of the quality of your evidence. As I posted at #6 above, something like a docket from an out-of-area port might be more persuasive.

 

[benjenbav]

I asked AI what that might mean, and it explained it like this:
[Deleted quoted content removed]

Reading that reminded me how confused I was throughout the evidence course in which I fluked a pass at law school 40 years ago.

 

[Tranona]

Good example of how difficult it is to operationalize many EU *rules". The Directives are often laudable but the legislators tend to opt out of writing good rules by leaving it to individual states to develop their own laws and regulations which inevitably vary from state to state.

Once you have entered the EU under TA by clearing customs at point of entry the boat is free to roam around the EU for 18 months. There is no need to formally exit one state and enter another even though transit from one state to another will almost certainly mean a passage out of EU waters. This makes compliance with the end of the 18 months rule problematic as the directive does not define what leaving and re-entering means, so states make up their own definition. In the case of Germany they have been very kind and made it easy - a simple data entry on their state customs system is all that is needed. Other states may have a different rule - or no rule at all leaving it to local offices. It is similar with VAT status which classifies the boat as EU goods where states vary in respect of what constitutes evidence of VAT payment and status

 

[IamDiscoDad]

We currently keep our boat in La Linea. We had it delivered here from the factory. We then exported it from Spain to Gibraltar and then brought it back (with the help of an agent).

Surely if we sail from say Cartagena to a port in one of the baleriaric islands, getting a marina receipt from each side we have travelled through international waters?

 

[Tranona]

We currently keep our boat in La Linea. We had it delivered here from the factory. We then exported it from Spain to Gibraltar and then brought it back (with the help of an agent).

Surely if we sail from say Cartagena to a port in one of the baleriaric islands, getting a marina receipt from each side we have travelled through international waters?

You could argue that, but as explained there are no definitive rules as to what is required to leave and re-enter the EU for the purposes of applying for TA. It is up to the individual state to have in place a system that complies with the principles. Inevitably that varies from state to state and indeed in some states from port to port because of the autonomy given to individual customs offices.

The only sensible course of action is to get advice from the customs office you intend to use as to what will be acceptable to them.

 

[stranded]

You could argue that, but as explained there are no definitive rules as to what is required to leave and re-enter the EU for the purposes of applying for TA. It is up to the individual state to have in place a system that complies with the principles. Inevitably that varies from state to state and indeed in some states from port to port because of the autonomy given to individual customs offices.

The only sensible course of action is to get advice from the customs office you intend to use as to what will be acceptable to them.

And hope that the same person (in the same mood) is in when you return.

And… remember that in rules based systems, if an official makes a mistake or misconstrues the rule, they will be bound to do the right thing under the rules, not the right thing by you because they inadvertently led you down the wrong path. Especially if tax avoidance is involved I imagine.

 

[IamDiscoDad]

Maybe we'll just stick to cruising in Spain and the 12 mile rule...or we'll pop back to Gibraltar every 18 months. Its a great place to winter (la Linea) and they are doing some major upgrade works.

Here are a couple of links which are interesting reading:
Steady on... VAT discrepancies can create havoc. - Mortola Yacht Brokers

You can close TPA without leaving Spanish waters | Evolution Yacht Agents

I find the Policia Local at the port mostly friendly if you try to speak their language and deal with them respectfully.

 

[benjenbav]

And… remember that in rules based systems, if an official makes a mistake or misconstrues the rule, they will be bound to do the right thing under the rules, not the right thing by you because they inadvertently led you down the wrong path. Especially if tax avoidance is involved I imagine.

A very good point and well made!

 

[stranded]

A very good point and well made!

I think there is a real danger that people taking this approach will try to engineer the response they want, or will interpret an ambiguous response in the way which best suits them. I have a copy of a response from the Breton regional douanes headquarters to an acquaintance when he sought advice this year on the question whether merely sailing into international waters resets the TA clock. He very kindly gave me the copy to reassure me it was OK because I was wittering about the same thing.

Trouble is, in the two online translations of the response I have done, it simply doesn’t say what he thinks it says; it just paraphrases the Directive. Crucially to my mind, it does not directly address the key question whether merely sailing to international waters then returning directly to France constitutes exporting and importing the vessel. Therefore, neither does it address the question how doing so could be satisfactorily evidenced.

So my acquaintance (a university professor) sleeps soundly believing he has in his pocket a trump card to convince the local douanes. And I’ll keep wittering!

 

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