EU Ensign instead of Red Ensign

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haydude

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A EU citizen not UK citizen, but UK resident has a yacht that is UK SSR registered. I was wondering, could he fly the EU ensign instead of the UK Red Ensign? Are the rules around flying ensigns regulated by law or just etiquette? Please no flame about the EU, this is a practical question.
 
haydude said:
A EU citizen not UK citizen, but UK resident has a yacht that is UK SSR registered. I was wondering, could he fly the EU ensign instead of the UK Red Ensign? Are the rules around flying ensigns regulated by law or just etiquette? Please no flame about the EU, this is a practical question.
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Ensign signifies flag state of the boat. Nothing directly to do with citizenship of owner. EU is not a flag state.
 
One would hope that boat owners would understand that the ensign has nothing to do with the nationality of the owner but....

The answer to the question is No.
For a start there is no "EU ensign". It simply does not exist. The EU is not a nationality or a state, thank God.

1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea - Article 92. Status of ships.

1. Ships shall sail under the flag of one State only and, save in exceptional cases expressly provided for in international treaties or in this Convention, shall be subject to its exclusive jurisdiction on the high seas. A ship may not change its flag during a voyage or while in a port of call, save in the case of a real transfer of ownership or change of registry.
2. A ship which sails under the flags of two or more States, using them according to convenience, may not claim any of the nationalities in question with respect to any other State, and may be assimilated to a ship without nationality.

And an interesting quote in the flagspot link above suggesting that wearing an ensign from a state the vessel is not registered in may negate the insurance. Given the eagerness of insurers to welch on paying I'd see that alone as reason to conform.

If you want to advertise your nationality, EU "membership", golf club, church or football affiliations the port spreaders are the place, not the ensign staff.
 
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MASH said:
And an interesting quote in the flagspot link above suggesting that wearing an ensign from a state the vessel is not registered in may negate the insurance.
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To be fair, though, there is always some nutter who will suggest that anything might invalidate your insurance.
 
There are basically two requirements regarding ensigns. These apply to registered ships only, so I am not sure if SSR counts. That aside, the requirements are

1. You have to fly the right ensign at certain times, mainly entering and leaving port

2. You mustn't fly "other distinctive national colours".

The EU ensign is not the right ensign for any UK registered vessel, so it doesn't fulfil the first requirement. On the other hand, nobody except a few Bufton-Tuftons in royal yacht clubs actually care about this, so it's unlikely to cause any problems except some fire brigade call-outs to deal with cases of spontaneous combustion.

Whether use of the EU ensign would breach the second requirement depends on whether it counts as a "distinctive national colour". As MASH has pointed out, the EU is not a nation so it's hard to see how an EU flag could be a distinctive national colour.

In practice you can fly what you want around the UK and nobody will give a toss. Other nations - I'm looking at you, France - are likely to be much less tolerant.
 
Surely a UK registered vessel does not have any requirement to fly an ensign when in UK waters.

As such why can't it fly any pretty coloured bit of cloth somewhere near the stern (though ideally not one that looks like a distress signal or a foreign ensign).
As the EU flag is not a formal ensign, it surely simply qualifies as a coloured bit of cloth - so what is the issue
 
dunedin said:
Surely a UK registered vessel does not have any requirement to fly an ensign when in UK waters.
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Merchant Shipping Act 1995:

5 Duty to show British flag.

(1)Subject to subsection (2) below, a British ship, other than a fishing vessel, shall hoist the red ensign or other proper national colours—
(a)on a signal being made to the ship by one of Her Majesty’s ships (including any ship under the command of a commissioned naval officer); and
(b)on entering or leaving any foreign port; and
(c)in the case of ships of 50 or more tons gross tonnage, on entering or leaving any British port.

I'd forgotten that smaller vessels are exempt when entering or leaving British harbours, and I have not yet had a naval ship demand to see my ensign.

As such why can't it fly any pretty coloured bit of cloth somewhere near the stern (though ideally not one that looks like a distress signal or a foreign ensign).
As the EU flag is not a formal ensign, it surely simply qualifies as a coloured bit of cloth - so what is the issue
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I have made this point about my Scottish ensign on the couple of occasions (over 25 years) when I have been challenged about it by cross, posh, elderly men. "What ensign?" I ask, politely and listen to the spluttering.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Gotta be news to the RYS and the blue ensign boys.
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Stop it, I can hear the Steam safety valves blowing orf all along the Medina's lower reaches:D
As a member of the Club ( defaced Wed Ensign) founded by Prinz Albert because the RYS wouldn't let his Wife, the Queen over their threshold, I must deplore this early start to the Flag Trolling Season.

Yours Wrathfully,
Gervase 'Haig-Face' Chomolndley-Buffington-Smythe-Creepston
Tunbwidge Wells Sculls & Fives Blue 1895
 
Perhaps some have missed the point by citing the merchant shipping act that applies to commercial Ships.

The subject is about Pleasure Crafts, incidentally in the SSR but might not be. As I understand Pleasure Crafts are under no obligation to fly any ensign whilst in UK waters, therefore flying any "coloured cloth" as someone mentioned should not make any difference.
 
haydude said:
Perhaps some have missed the point by citing the merchant shipping act that applies to commercial Ships.

The subject is about Pleasure Crafts, incidentally in the SSR but might not be. As I understand Pleasure Crafts are under no obligation to fly any ensign whilst in UK waters, therefore flying any "coloured cloth" as someone mentioned should not make any difference.
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Have a gander at Part 1 of the Merchant Shipping Act 1995, will you, and tell us where it distinguishes between commercial and pleasure craft. It's available at http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1995/21/part/I but to start you off, here's how it begins

1 British ships and United Kingdom ships.

(1)A ship is a British ship if—
(a)the ship is registered in the United Kingdom under Part II; or
(b)the ship is, as a Government ship, registered in the United Kingdom in pursuance of an Order in Council under section 308; or
(c)the ship is registered under the law of a relevant British possession; or
(d)the ship is a small ship other than a fishing vessel and—
(i)is not registered under Part II, but
(ii)is wholly owned by qualified owners, and
(iii)is not registered under the law of a country outside the United Kingdom.​
(2)For the purposes of subsection (1)(d) above—
“qualified owners” means persons of such description qualified to own British ships as is prescribed by regulations made by the Secretary of State for the purposes of that paragraph; and
“small ship” means a ship less than 24 metres in length (“length” having the same meaning as in the tonnage regulations).​
(3)A ship is a “United Kingdom ship” for the purposes of this Act (except section 85 and 144(3)) if the ship is registered in the United Kingdom under Part II (and in Part V “United Kingdom fishing vessel” has a corresponding meaning).

Incidentally, "Part II" refers to the Act, not the register.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Have a gander at Part 1 of the Merchant Shipping Act 1995, will you, and tell us where it distinguishes between commercial and pleasure craft. It's available at http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1995/21/part/I but to start you off, here's how it begins

1 British ships and United Kingdom ships.
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I think is clear that Part III (SSR) or any other pleasure vessel not registered at all is a "pleasure vessel", NOT a "ship"
 
The worry is that with not much to do the Eurocrats will bring in a law that all EU country boats/ships will have to fly the EU flag. The RYA has said if they do try to do that they will fight it.
 
KellysEye said:
The worry is that with not much to do the Eurocrats will bring in a law that all EU country boats/ships will have to fly the EU flag. The RYA has said if they do try to do that they will fight it.
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What is the evidence for that statement or is it just anti-European paranoia?
And if you did have an EU coloured cloth on the back versus a UK one why would that make any difference to your enjoyment of sailing?

(Keeping this separate from other aspects of specific EU laws such as type approval, which are applied irrespective of flag of registration)
 
KellysEye said:
The worry is that with not much to do the Eurocrats will bring in a law that all EU country boats/ships will have to fly the EU flag. The RYA has said if they do try to do that they will fight it.
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Jolly good for the RYA. Three cheers.
It's high time (and well past high time) that the UK extracted itself from the creeping cancer of European law making and self-appointed perceived quasi dominance over OUR affairs and rights.
Personally, whether I'm entitled to or required to fly/not fly an ensign of whatever design, hue, shape, connotation etc etc I am jolly proud to fly my "red duster" whenever I cast-orff, weigh or drift away - and if a British/Commonwealth warship had the slightest interest in me to demand I "show my colours" I would gladly and proudly do so - as well as feeling a tad sheepish that I was on the water "undressed".

But there again, I am of the time and breed that was taught to behave properly and do it properly.

Is the sun over the yardarm yet?
Hearts of Oak, Rule Britannia, Dambusters March, British Grenadiers, Land of Hope and Glory playing on the gramophone..........
 
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