Etap 23

[Nina Lucia]

My mate and I have just bought Etap 23, to share over the summer holidays in Croatia. Plan is to tow her over there and live her on the trailer and then when any one of us arrive she can be launched and used.
Any one had experience of sailing and towing Etap 23?
Aparently they have a good reputation...
I hope...

 

[Tranona]

Don't know much about the boat or trailing it, but make sure you are fully aware of the paperwork requirements to take a boat into Croatia. Many changes since they joined the EU. check with the RYA for latest requirements.

 

[Seajet]

I believe the Etap 23 is like the 26, in that the keel does not fully retract, but along with the ballast bulb a fair amount of plate is left beneath the hull ?

In which case it would pay to make a thorough check of any particularly low bridges etc en route if at all possible.

Unless a suitable trailer came with the boat, you will need one ( braked 4 wheel ) with a central tray to take the main weight, and good side steadies with as large area pads as reasonably possible.

It would probably require quite a hefty vehicle to be legal towing this boat and trailer, don't know about Croatia but the British police are increasingly hot on this, pulling over towed boats as easy targets and escorting them to weighbridges if in any doubt.

Due to the keel format you would probably benefit from relatively steep slipways, as long as the towing vehicle is safe from being dragged in, quite possibly requiring a wire or chain from the front to a strong point.

Also due to the keel she may not be happy on drying moorings, an Etap 26 at my club wasn't despite the mud being very soft.

 

[zikzik]

See the specs here: http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=4944. It looks like Seajet is right, a bulbed retracting keel will leave the bulb below. !500kg should be ok for towing with a braked trailer. But you need to check the beam to see if it within permissible rules both in the UK and everywhere between here and Croatia.

I towed an Etap 21i (1300kg) for a few years on a purpose built two wheeled trailer with a VW camper. It was fine.

 

[Seajet]

zikzik,

one would expect a ballast bulb to stay external to the hull, the thing with these Etaps is that the actual keel plate does not retract fully, leaving a fair bit sticking below the bottom; so giving reduced draught for getting around shallows but not the drying out & ease of trailing & launching one might expect with a lift keeler.

 

[William_H]

Ok so now you have the boat. As said you will need a robust vehicle to tow it with. You need guts for hills and mass and braking for legality etc. Make sure you have good load rated tyres, worth buying new for peace of mind. Make sure wheel bearings are good. One trick for tapered bearings is to carry a spare on a stub axle on the draw bar. So the spare wheel carries replacement bearings as well. Make sure the traler has not been weakened by rust.
A said check for air draft of low bridges etc. You amy be able to reduce the height of the mast layed on cabin top.
When you get to launching you may need to lower the trailer down a steep ramp on a rope to get enough depth to float her off. You may very likely find it desirable to get a mooring as launching retrieval will be a real job.
However it looks like a fine design and should give a lot of pleasure. good luck olewill

 

[zikzik]

zikzik,

one would expect a ballast bulb to stay external to the hull, the thing with these Etaps is that the actual keel plate does not retract fully, leaving a fair bit sticking below the bottom; so giving reduced draught for getting around shallows but not the drying out & ease of trailing & launching one might expect with a lift keeler.

I didn't know that. But I did notice the min draft of 0.7m or so. That is the same as the 21i with its fixed tandem keel.
That means she will sit higher on the trailer. My 21i, with mast fixed onto the coach roof stood about 7 feet tall on her trailer. A 23 is likely to be a foot or so higher than that. So bridges should not be a problem. But as William_H says, the trailer needs to be right. These boats are trailerable, not trailer sailers in my experience. I only used to take mine home for the winter. A long rope keeps the tow vehicle wheels off the slippery slope. The towing was the easy bit really. As long as you take care.

Good luck if you do it.

 

[Sans Bateau]

I dont think one needs to worry about drying out in Croatia. Its in the Med isnt it? How much rise and fall of tide do you get?

 

[Jim@sea]

but the British police are increasingly hot on this, pulling over towed boats as easy targets and escorting them to weighbridges if in any doubt.

This is perhaps why some boat dealers choose to move boats on a Sunday when there are no weighbridges open. What I always do is to take the boat to a weighbridge once, get it weighed and keep the printed weight ticket with the documents. Being stopped and instructed to follow a Police Car to a weighbridge can erode precious time if you are trying to get to a cross channel ferry.
Having a weight ticket to show if stopped would allow you to continue.

 

[roblpm]

This is perhaps why some boat dealers choose to move boats on a Sunday when there are no weighbridges open. What I always do is to take the boat to a weighbridge once, get it weighed and keep the printed weight ticket with the documents. Being stopped and instructed to follow a Police Car to a weighbridge can erode precious time if you are trying to get to a cross channel ferry.
Having a weight ticket to show if stopped would allow you to continue.

What happens at a weighbridge if you are overweight?? Do they impound the load and vehicle??!!

 

[Seajet]

What happens at a weighbridge if you are overweight?? Do they impound the load and vehicle??!!

I suspect one would be forced to obtain the services of a tow truck or similar; who will not ever be a chum of the police, ever, ask how I know from a car crash !

 

[AngusMcDoon]

ask how I know from a car crash !

Tell us how you know.

 

[Nina Lucia]

We have already have found marina in Istria/ border with Italy. She will be launched when we come and taken out of the water when we leave ( 30 Eeros each way)
To keep her in dry storage, on her trailer, there is only E 350.00 a year....
I am sure there are cheaper yards around as well.
Just bought the trailer too, four wheels. Now is task to check the brekes and bearings.
And last, I am hoping to tow her with our old mercedes 220 dieasel estate, automatic.
Our Vancouver 27 will remain in Solent.
Good plan, hopefully already there.

 

[TSB240]

My mate and I have just bought Etap 23, to share over the summer holidays in Croatia. Plan is to tow her over there and live her on the trailer and then when any one of us arrive she can be launched and used.
Any one had experience of sailing and towing Etap 23?
Aparently they have a good reputation...
I hope...

I have sailed on and in company with a friends Etap 23. It was very slightly stiffer than our Trapper 240 but both boats were well matched in tough conditions. Sailing wise a good experience with no strong vices and the boat would look after you in the worst conditions.

The interior space was limited because of the hull construction and one should be wary of water mixing in the foam insulation.

If we had not had a reasonable offer on our old boat we intended to do as you are which was to keep her and relocate and store her on our trailer a bit further south in Europe.

We have extensively trailed our boat which was slightly larger and wider (2.8M) on French roads.

No problems with a decent 4*4 or you could possibly rent a van with a tow bar.

You can legally tow a trailer with a maximum load width of 2.9m on all Uk and French roads without need of police escort or wide vehicle signs.

Make sure your tow vehicle is legal for the combined weight of trailer, boat and all the extra gear. We found that the boat design weight is only a guide. I would estimate that the etap 23 and trailer would tip the scales at a minimum 2 tonnes and with any gear including anchors, outboards, gas bottles, dry tanks, you will be looking at towing 2.5 tonnes all up.

We fitted our 4 wheel trailer with brand new high pressure commercial trailer tyres (much higher load rating) firstly because some scrotes nicked the originals but secondly the stiffer side walls eliminated flexing which also totally eliminated any tendency for snaking. We never used a stabaliser bar and were happy to tow at the maximum limit of 60MPH on the motorway.

Make sure you have good wing mirrors on both sides with a good view behind the width of your boat or you will never be able to see to pull out and overtake a truck on a dual carriageway safely.

Go down steep hills only as fast as the towing vehicle would allow you to go up them! Dont rely on your brakes on long descents.

If its hot you may find that the cooling fan on the tow vehicle is not sufficient to keep the temperature down on long ascents. You then turn the heater on!!!!! Try towing through the night or early morning if possible!

Make sure you carry not only a spare wheel but a trolley jack that can lift your trailer and load. Also a spare set of wheel bearings .

I was praised by the Port police for the side and rear markers that I fitted to the boat.(Aldi led bike lights fitted to stanchions) It is not a legal requirement but I felt a lot happier on narrower roads when approaching trucks could identify with the width of our load rather than the width of the towing vehicle.

Steve

 

[Sans Bateau]

No worries about water with the foam, it is closed cell. It is almost impossible to avoid getting some moisture between the two skins where the foam lives.

 

[Seajet]

LIFT KEELERS ON TRAILERS

be very wary about keeping any lift keeler on a trailer long term, as it prevents maintainence of the keel plate; at some stage the boat will need to be either kept dangling from a hoist long enough to do any scraping & painting required, or placed on high trestles.

It's also possible to dig a pit and lower the keel into that, but the digging is hard work unless one has a JCB handy, and pits tend to fill with water and / or even dangerous gasses.

I supply the plans for simple but effective high trestles to Anderson 22 owners, quite a few A22's and some other lift keelers use them; easy to make, strong and portable to take home in the summer.

---

Also something just to be aware of, an A22 owner had a rotten time taking his boat down the Danube; the rudder was damaged as the river was in post floods spate, he drove a long way to his home in southern Spain to get his trailer, on the way back the car broke down and he left it with trailer at a small village garage somewhere Croatian sounding ( I forget the details, am away from home to look things up ) - the local mafia moved in and stole his trailer.

He was so disheartened, plus he and his crew ( both retired ) had been injured during the incidents on the fast flowing river, that he sold the boat - which he had spent years readying for the trip - as she was in situ for next to nothing.

 

[LP1]

What trailer did you buy and how much was it? I have one to sell (4 wheel braked SBS) and don't know what I should be looking to get for it.

 

[Seajet]

Just to add to my post #16 re trailers; if one is really handy at DIY inc probably cutting & welding it is possible to modify a trailer for a lift keeler to allow keel maintainence.

The tray which the keel - and weight of the boat - rests on must be made detachable, but strong enough when in place to take the weight of the boat inc the bumps & jostles when trailing on the road.

The side steadies must be large, load spreading items; the full hull width cradle type supports used on keelboat trailers seem a good bet.

If the side steadies are then raised - a lot of trailer's steadies are on ' acro ' type heavy duty buttress style threads - the boat can be raised and the keel lowered to the ground, or a block allowing access around the ballast bulb too.

A friend of mine, a seriously good engineer, did this with his trailer for his Anderson 22 lift keeler; he found the boat may not be all that steady when raised like this, so it would be a temporary measure while one is there to do the work, definitely not a case of leaving the boat raised for long storage periods ashore.

If one can have the boat craned on and off trestles are by far the best answer, they also avoid dunking the trailer with the corrosion problems that leads to.

 

[DownWest]

Road bridge clearances should be 5 mtr. So not a prob.

Seajet, I don't think you will be jacking up a boat with Acros. I have just built a trailer for a 3.5 ton M/Sailer and used Acros for the steadies. Apply some pressure, yes. But too much friction to do any lifting.
Sounds like the OP has got it sorted. I would be interested to hear about towing regulations in Croatia. By report, the Italians can be tricky.

 

[Seajet]

DownWest,

it worked fine for my chum, a bit at one corner, then the other etc, keeping the hull level as she went up; the steadies were vertical or near it. Back at home I have pics, will put one up later.

Remember the keel weight stays on the block on the ground, one is only raising the hull, with a lift keeler when the tension on the lifting gear is slackened.