STATUE
Active member
I knew it once !
What does one call an estuary that has no river flowing into it - like Salcombe ?
Thanks.
What does one call an estuary that has no river flowing into it - like Salcombe ?
Thanks.
Estuary without a River
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AntarcticPilot
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Ria
Arcady
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Nearest I can suggest is “Ria” meaning a flooded estuary. (If I recall my geography ’O’ level correctly) ?
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LittleSister
Well-known member
Salcombe does have rivers (or streams) flowing into it!
I think the critical distinction is that the Salcombe 'estuary' is not so much an estuary of the modest watercourses that flow into it, as older, bigger valleys that have been flooded by the sea. (I am sure Antarctic Pilot or someone else could provide us with a more succinct definition, though.).
More philosophically, there is no clear dividing line between an estuary and a ria, as far as I can see. I don't think the Blackwater (Essex) estuary would be described as a ria, but it's valley is too big for the Blackwater river to have created. In that case it's because, IIRC, the much bigger 'Thames' once flowed out through that valley. (Perhaps when the 'Thames' was still a tributary of the 'Rhine', and the 'North Sea' was the Rhine Estuary, and unconnected to the 'English Channel'/'Manche'!)
(What is, and is not, the 'Thames' is another philosophical conundrum! ? )
I think the critical distinction is that the Salcombe 'estuary' is not so much an estuary of the modest watercourses that flow into it, as older, bigger valleys that have been flooded by the sea. (I am sure Antarctic Pilot or someone else could provide us with a more succinct definition, though.).
More philosophically, there is no clear dividing line between an estuary and a ria, as far as I can see. I don't think the Blackwater (Essex) estuary would be described as a ria, but it's valley is too big for the Blackwater river to have created. In that case it's because, IIRC, the much bigger 'Thames' once flowed out through that valley. (Perhaps when the 'Thames' was still a tributary of the 'Rhine', and the 'North Sea' was the Rhine Estuary, and unconnected to the 'English Channel'/'Manche'!)
(What is, and is not, the 'Thames' is another philosophical conundrum! ? )
Capt Popeye
Well-known member
Well yes , I viewed a sort of geographical programme a few years ago , and in it they appeared to declare that far up the River Thames can be described 'as on Sea ' due i recall because the Tide Effects can actually flow far up river , so a sort of 'Westminster upon Sea is possible !
Yea well I thought , some Achademics , can surely believe anythings possible ?
Re the 'Ria' ;my understanding is that what appears to be an Estuary is only an Estuary IF it is supplied mainly by river Waters flowing into it ; If he apparent Estuary is mainly fed by the Sea Levels then its a 'Ria' ; understand that Salcome up to Kingsbridge is mainly fed from the Sea levels ; but they do I understand have a Harbour Master , like normal Estuarys so do
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R.Ems
Active member
Fyord?
LittleSister
Well-known member
Fjord (also fiord)
A long, narrow, deep inlet of the sea between high cliffs, as in Norway, typically formed by submergence of a glaciated valley.
Origin - Late 17th century Norwegian, from Old Norse fjǫrthr. Compare with firth.
Ria
A long, narrow inlet formed by the partial submergence of a river valley.
Origin - Late 19th century from Spanish ría ‘estuary’.
Estuary
The tidal mouth of a large river, where the tide meets the stream.
Origin - Mid 16th century (denoting a tidal inlet of any size): from Latin aestuarium ‘tidal part of a shore’, from aestus ‘tide’.
The above definitions are from a general English dictionary, presumably there are more precise definitions in dictionaries of physical geography, but I no longer have such to hand.
A long, narrow, deep inlet of the sea between high cliffs, as in Norway, typically formed by submergence of a glaciated valley.
Origin - Late 17th century Norwegian, from Old Norse fjǫrthr. Compare with firth.
Ria
A long, narrow inlet formed by the partial submergence of a river valley.
Origin - Late 19th century from Spanish ría ‘estuary’.
Estuary
The tidal mouth of a large river, where the tide meets the stream.
Origin - Mid 16th century (denoting a tidal inlet of any size): from Latin aestuarium ‘tidal part of a shore’, from aestus ‘tide’.
The above definitions are from a general English dictionary, presumably there are more precise definitions in dictionaries of physical geography, but I no longer have such to hand.
RivalRedwing
Well-known member
I suspect mother nature didn't apeciate that it had to be classified into discrete pigeonholes
Momac
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johnalison
Well-known member
Having my childhood holidays in Cornwall, I always knew what the sea was because you only had to poke your bow out of Mevagissey harbour and you were in it. In the Thames estuary, PLA notwithstanding, there is no point at which you can be sure. Sometimes it happens as soon as you leave Harwich harbour and at other times not until you pass Longsand Head.
Adios
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What about: A Ria is the flooded valley of a mostly dried up river that was formed during the last ice age when the sea level was lower? An estuary is the mouth of a current river?
But then aren't all our rivers mostly dried up compared to the volume of water that would have run down them when the valleys were formed during the last ice age? The Thames does a reasonable job of looking like it meets the sea as an equal but still the extent of the sea flooding inland is determined by the (mostly artificial) height of the surrounding land above sea level, very little to do with opposition from meeting fresh water coming down but at least it does effect the amount of time it is ebbing vs flooding, being a bit more ebb even in normal times not just after exceptional rain. But its certainly more tidal than fresh in the part we call the estuary. All the Thames estuary "east coast rivers" seem more clearly like Rias though in comparison. Go to any of them near the top of the estuary on a low tide and see the trickle of fresh water compared to the size of river when the tide is in. They are just flooded low land which was formed during previous ice age. Flooding up to the point where the land is at sea level. So i wonder if all the UKs river estuaries aren't rias. Could be both words mean the same thing just they come from spanish or latin.
Wansworth
Well-known member
Five rias in Galicia formed by God putting his hand down?
Charlie Boy
Well-known member
Thought Salcome is described as an ‘inlet’
Adios
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Thats nice. In the UK the devil gets credit for everything. It would be called "the Devil's handprint". Bit of a worry really that trend. Just tested that theory on maps of the UK. Sure enough God gets barely a mention compared to the devil. And this is just official names on a map there must be many more locally known names.
Adios
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Would an inlet be where the sea came through onto a low point on the land and washed it out? The land around there drains into the estuary but maybe its considered that that wasn't what formed the shape of the land? This is the mouth, it looks like the gap between hills being lower than the sea level it is naturally part of the sea.
inland it does look like the sea could have washed it out rather than rivers formed it. The inlets along the north Norfolk coast are even more clearly sea breaches of the land while most of the rain falling on the land drains backwards and comes out at great yarmouth.
Blueboatman
Well-known member
Funny to think that the English Channel was once an estuary , a marsh, and you could walk over from Le Continent
About 5 hours would do it I imagine
About 5 hours would do it I imagine
Adios
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and as the sea level rose it makes sense that the lowest parts of the land would flood first hence river mouths flooded where it had been worn lower by erosion and then was further eroded by tidal action. eg River Deben to form the Deben Ria as I shall hence forth call it. Sounds a bit more exotic as well.
R.Ems
Active member
Our late Empress Victoria will live in Salcombe for ever, happily riding one of her pigs.
Adios
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Ha! I'll look out for that when I'm passing next
R.Ems
Active member
To S/B leaving, in the Bar area. It's quite uncanny whn you see it in the flesh!