EPRIB, PLB or SPOT GEN3 Tracker?

[PhillM]

For single handed sailing. Assuming out of contact for a few days a time, making some reasonable length crossings. Which would you have?

My EPIRB is out of battery and its going to cost £200 'ish for a new one. Thinking aloud, it was fine when I had a crew, but if I go overboard it is not going to help me to call for help. That leads towards a PLB that I can keep on my LJ. Then I saw SPOT GEN3 with its emergency button. People could track me as well as I can call for help.

Which would you invest in.

p.s I WILL have a liferaft onboard too.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

EPIRB in a float away housing and clipped on all the time on a well thought out jackstay system i.e. eliminate the risk of falling overboard and maximise the ability of the EPIRB to activate an alert. The EPIRB can be launched manually. Both the SPOT and PLB suffer from poor positioning affecting the GPS singling due to the need to hold the device such that the internal antenna is orientated correctly; may be difficult in a big sea. The EPIRBs have antennas that pop up and stay pointing up at the sky.

Regarding jackstays. From what I have been reading there is a case for mounting safety lines on the jackstays at various positions e.g. central line jack stay, side deck jackstays to get around the cockpit, perhaps a forward jackstay in front of the mast. Look up Attainable Adventure Cruising who have a lot to say on jackstay installation and avoiding MOB. If you are single handing then 100% clipped on all the time to a reliable jackstay system is the default position. hence no need for a PLB.

Read Cheeki Rafiki for the PLB story.

 

[rogerthebodger]

I agree jack lines and safety harness. One interesting discussion I read was to have the harness line connected to your back and not at the front of the harness at this will keep your head above water rather than the water flow pushing you head under at with the front harness connection.

Some time age I also read about a MOB system that would put the rudder hard over depending on which tack you were on. This would help to stop the boat or get it to sail around in a circuit rather than just sailing away from you.

 

[PhillM]

Thanks guys, I have centreline jackstays and several clip on points. But what if something does happen and I go over the side? Then which would you choose PLB or SPOT?

 

[bbg]

Thanks guys, I have centreline jackstays and several clip on points. But what if something does happen and I go over the side? Then which would you choose PLB or SPOT?

They do different things.
I have an older SPOT tracker, not the lates. It is great for letting people know where you are and that you are OK. In emergencies, SPOT does not alert the GMDSS system immediately. The alert goes to the commercial organisation and then they alert the authorities.

My choice was not either / or. When offshore, especially solo, I have a PLB on my person at all times. I use the SPOT for leaving the breadcrumb trail so family and friends can follow, and could be used as a backup distress signal in an emergency.

If I were only going to choose one, it would be a PLB. The other features of SPOT are nice to have, but if the s hits the fan, I want a purpose-made emergency beacon.

And I would choose PLB over EPIRB (if I could only get one). I think the risk of going over the side is greater than the risk of total loss, and unless you are crossing an ocean the 24 hours that a PLB will transmit (I'm sure it would be more, but 24 hours is the minimum) will be enough for rescue services to find you. In any situation you would activate an EPIRB, you could activate a PLB instead.

Yes, you need to keep the PLB upright, which might be difficult in the water - especially for extended periods - but for me it is the best compromise of price, usability (i.e. having it when you need it) and performance (according to the minimum standards).

If crossing oceans, I might go for an EPIRB first. But if sailing coastally or across the channel, my order of preference would be
- PLB
- SPOT
- EPIRB (after a lot of other equipment)

 

[iLens]

I agree with bbg - a PLB is the No. 1. If you've got AIS I'm not sure a SPOT helps that much, and a EPIRB is well down the list.

 

[Roberto]

For that type of sailing ( singlehanded with a medium rescue time) I use a lifejacket and have a chest pouch with the PLB and other safety bits. For personal safety and in those conditions I would put the plb absolutely numer one.
I also have the epirb, two actually but on one the battery has expired :d . Tracking through email (ssb + satphone).

I would use a device like Spot for emergency only in addition to one of the above, not as a primary means (there are cases where it has been effective but if I have to risk my life on it, absolutely not for me).

 

[Deleted member 36384]

For that type of sailing ( singlehanded with a medium rescue time) I use a lifejacket and have a chest pouch with the PLB and other safety bits. For personal safety and in those conditions I would put the plb absolutely numer one.
I also have the epirb, two actually but on one the battery has expired :d . Tracking through email (ssb + satphone).

I would use a device like Spot for emergency only in addition to one of the above, not as a primary means (there are cases where it has been effective but if I have to risk my life on it, absolutely not for me).

PLB as number 1 is flawed logic over equipment for remaining on board. Falling over can be reduced to an extremely low probability. For single handing that must be the number 1 priority.

 

[Roberto]

PLB as number 1 is flawed logic over equipment for remaining on board. Falling over can be reduced to an extremely low probability. For single handing that must be the number 1 priority.

Oh, should that really be repeated every time ?
Remaining on board is then flawed logic as priority nr 1 is surely eat and drink or one dies and who cares if on/overboard ?
Also, in the final approach to say a busy port, when one has to tie the fenders, prepare the mooring lines or the anchor etc, in essence at least for me making 5-10 trips all around the boat, should I be always attached to my system (which makes it impossible to fall overboard -except breakages- but obviously decreases freedom of movement) it would take a veeery long time, with additional risks of collision before being able to reach the autopilot, under those conditions I prefer to have freedom of movement by not being attached and my priority #1 (after eating and drinking) is having various means of being quickly detected by boats all around should I fall in the water.

Anyway, the OP says he already thought about that and asks about electronic devices offshore, I gave my opinion about those.

 

[LittleSister]

Oh, should that really be repeated every time ?
Remaining on board is then flawed logic as priority nr 1 is surely eat and drink or one dies and who cares if on/overboard ?
Also, in the final approach to say a busy port, when one has to tie the fenders, prepare the mooring lines or the anchor etc, in essence at least for me making 5-10 trips all around the boat, should I be always attached to my system (which makes it impossible to fall overboard -except breakages- but obviously decreases freedom of movement) it would take a veeery long time, with additional risks of collision before being able to reach the autopilot, under those conditions I prefer to have freedom of movement by not being attached and my priority #1 (after eating and drinking) is having various means of being quickly detected by boats all around should I fall in the water.

+1

Also, on more than one boat I've owned the size and layout precludes an ideal arrangement of jackstays.

 

[bbg]

PLB as number 1 is flawed logic over equipment for remaining on board. Falling over can be reduced to an extremely low probability. For single handing that must be the number 1 priority.

He wasn't asking about equipment for remaining on board. He was asking about equipment for summoning help.

Jackstays don't do that very well.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Oh, should that really be repeated every time ?
Remaining on board is then flawed logic as priority nr 1 is surely eat and drink or one dies and who cares if on/overboard ?
Also, in the final approach to say a busy port, when one has to tie the fenders, prepare the mooring lines or the anchor etc, in essence at least for me making 5-10 trips all around the boat, should I be always attached to my system (which makes it impossible to fall overboard -except breakages- but obviously decreases freedom of movement) it would take a veeery long time, with additional risks of collision before being able to reach the autopilot, under those conditions I prefer to have freedom of movement by not being attached and my priority #1 (after eating and drinking) is having various means of being quickly detected by boats all around should I fall in the water.

Anyway, the OP says he already thought about that and asks about electronic devices offshore, I gave my opinion about those.

If you fall in putting your fenders on you my wish you had prioritised clipping on over freedom of movement. Your argument about freedom of movement demonstrates flawed logic in risk prevention as does the food and water claim. No amount of food nd water is going to be of use if you fall overboard.

I carry my PLB as a back up to my EPIRB (and for dinghy sailing, tender use). I don’t expect a PLB to be reliable if I fall overboard except in the most benign of conditions.

My belief is that PLBs for MOB, especially single handing, are of little use for rescue. Sure, if I do fall overboard and have my PLB, I’ll be glad of it. From what I have read though, MOB recovery’s have not relied on PLB’s as an aid to recovery. An EPIRB has helped rescue people and the OP should have one, prioritised over a PLB for risks that I believe are more probable than MOB.

If my argument does not correspond to the exact request for advice by the OP, thats because of how I see the OPs issue.

 

[Roberto]

If you fall in putting your fenders on you my wish you had prioritised clipping on over freedom of movement. Your argument about freedom of movement demonstrates flawed logic in risk prevention as does the food and water claim. No amount of food nd water is going to be of use if you fall overboard.

I carry my PLB as a back up to my EPIRB (and for dinghy sailing, tender use). I don’t expect a PLB to be reliable if I fall overboard except in the most benign of conditions.

My belief is that PLBs for MOB, especially single handing, are of little use for rescue. Sure, if I do fall overboard and have my PLB, I’ll be glad of it. From what I have read though, MOB recovery’s have not relied on PLB’s as an aid to recovery. An EPIRB has helped rescue people and the OP should have one, prioritised over a PLB for risks that I believe are more probable than MOB.

If my argument does not correspond to the exact request for advice by the OP, thats because of how I see the OPs issue.

good, on my side just sharing points of view, nice to read yours and know you have found your happiness

cheers

 

[Sybarite]

I agree jack lines and safety harness. One interesting discussion I read was to have the harness line connected to your back and not at the front of the harness at this will keep your head above water rather than the water flow pushing you head under at with the front harness connection.

Some time age I also read about a MOB system that would put the rudder hard over depending on which tack you were on. This would help to stop the boat or get it to sail around in a circuit rather than just sailing away from you.

You can also get tethers which have loops in them which can help you climb back on deck.

 

[Pye_End]

Tether failures are far from rare, so perhaps should not be considered as the sole ultimate safety equipment when it comes to falling overboard.

Once PLB's or EPIRBS are registered then they will be monitored. Not so sure this is the case with messengers unless the unit is on a current payed plan. Also, battery life on PLB's/EPIRBS should mean they transmit for at least their guaranteed time - not true with a messenger unless it happens to be charged up when the event happens.

 

[Daverw]

If your single handed and fall in, how is the epirb going to help, unless your quick and grab it first, the plb will at least be with you

 

[requiem]

If you fall in, how much time do you have given the local water temperature and your clothing? If less than an hour or two then I wouldn't bet on a PLB, EPIRB, or satellite messenger to save you.

If you're close to shore and someone could reach you in that time window, then consider something that can send AIS and DSC distress signals (e.g. OceanSignal's MOB1 device or a similarly capable handheld VHF).

If further from shore but in warm, tropical waters I advise reviewing the coverage map of the SPOT; you might be outside it. In such cases a small PLB may be a nice addition to the boat's EPIRB.

Once PLB's or EPIRBS are registered then they will be monitored. Not so sure this is the case with messengers unless the unit is on a current payed plan.

You are quite correct regarding the satellite messengers; no current plan means the device doesn't communicate out. The 406 MHz beacons can still send a signal if unregistered, but it can result in a much-delayed response. At least in the past registration was required in order to pass along GPS position data.

 

[KellysEye]

We had jackstays and a U bott in the cockpit to clip on to, the harness should have one long tether and one short one which is used for going forward for reefing and tte long one is put around the mast to stop you falling back. As said an EPIRB is best it has double the battery life of a PLB 2 hours.

 

[GHA]

Tether failures are far from rare, so perhaps should not be considered as the sole ultimate safety equipment when it comes to falling overboard..

Alternatively spend some time researching a tether set up which won't break - quite a lot of recent investigation after the tragic clipper MOB. Tether system failures should be next to non existent in a properly designed setup.

IMHO time/money should only be spent on what to do when something bad happens after everything realistic has been done to lower the odds as much as possible of the bad thing happening in the first place.

 

[Pye_End]

Alternatively spend some time researching a tether set up which won't break - quite a lot of recent investigation after the tragic clipper MOB. Tether system failures should be next to non existent in a properly designed setup.

I hadn't realised there had been some some positive results from all the problems that came up. Can you point me in the direction of what are currently considered safe tethers? It looked to me as though just about all tethers were liable to the problems of unclipping, or bending, or webbing snapping, and I havn't seen anything substantially different in design in the chandlers.

IMHO time/money should only be spent on what to do when something bad happens after everything realistic has been done to lower the odds as much as possible of the bad thing happening in the first place.

I agree, and I am not promoting PLB's on the back of this - it is for the skipper to decide. All I wanted to do is dispel the myth that being tethered to the boat means that you will not end up in the water, unattached. If new tethers are substantially better then we need to know this as for some it will be an addition to the shopping list - but we need to know which ones are safe.