dunmor
Well-Known Member
looks nice. so wheres the best place to buy the 105 resin and 207 hardner?
Epoxy, then varnish...
- Thread starter wazza
- Start date
westernman
Well-Known Member
You can get 2-pack epoxy varnish. E.g. http://www.paint-direct.co.uk/en-GB/product/655/406-0-0-0-0.aspx
But I think it is only for interior use.
I can't help thinking that a 2-pack polyurethane is better.
However, the 2-pack polyurethane varnish on my boat where it is exposed to the sun (mast and bowsprit mainly) is flaking off.
I will probably scrape off what comes off, sand and touch up with Tonkinois. Tonkinois is very easy to use and gives good looking results with minimal preparation and work for the lazy cack handed amateur.
It seems to stand up well to the sun and to some movement. It won't all come off in one chunk if a bit of water gets underneath it either.
Personally I think epoxy and all 2-pack stuff is overrated.
But I think it is only for interior use.
I can't help thinking that a 2-pack polyurethane is better.
However, the 2-pack polyurethane varnish on my boat where it is exposed to the sun (mast and bowsprit mainly) is flaking off.
I will probably scrape off what comes off, sand and touch up with Tonkinois. Tonkinois is very easy to use and gives good looking results with minimal preparation and work for the lazy cack handed amateur.
It seems to stand up well to the sun and to some movement. It won't all come off in one chunk if a bit of water gets underneath it either.
Personally I think epoxy and all 2-pack stuff is overrated.
oldbilbo
...
I'll be cutting and fitting some plywood in the cockpit, and have anticipated 'flow-coating' with saturating epoxy for the mechanical benefits. So what's the best way to protect the epoxy? Overpaint in white ( what with? ) or 'using west epoxy with appropriate white pigment...' as suggested earlier?
sarabande
Well-Known Member
wazza
Well-Known Member
Then there is the very expensive, but very good Coelan (Xtreem coat here in Sweden) which is a 1 part Polyurethane coating...
AntarcticPilot
Well-Known Member
Not sure. Could be - the appearance is right (wet, shiny appearance - can't tell the colour because I don't know the original colour of the wood), but this stuff is as hard as nails, and I gather Tung Oil is relatively soft and scratches easily. This stuff is used on hard wearing areas like benches (which people step on in ordinary shoes) and shows no sign of scratching.
My first guess was that it was some sort of epoxy, but it seems to be OK in an environment that is going to see a lot more UV than we get in the UK.
Also, these are working boats, and I simply can't imagine much time or care being taken over application, which I gather is essential with Tung Oil. Despite the picture we have of the dedicated craftsmen of the Orient spending a lifetime hand-crafting a perfect object, I'm afraid that mostly the standard of finish of everyday items isn't wonderful, and people accept a level of finish that would be unacceptable in the West. If things work, they're usually good enough. I'm sure that any finish that required more than a couple of coats applied with a paint-brush wouldn't happen!
I will try and investigate further, but I'm afraid it may be a year before I'm over there again!
EuanMcKenzie
Well-Known Member
Sorry about that; I too was disappointed I couldn't identify what they used! But the chances are that either the stuff is unsafe to use (H&S is not much of an issue in HK!) or that it isn't available over here. But I was disappointed that our communication efforts failed, and may try again to find out what they use when I'm next there. Problem is that we probably need to see the tin; my wife is a native Cantonese speaker (and has a doctorate in Chemistry), but unfortunately Chinese in general and Cantonese in particular seems to have problems with generic descriptions of things. We do visit Hong Kong from time to time; my wife has family there, so we'll try again sometime.
Of course, it may require temperatures in the mid 30s to cure - not much chance of that over here
i will second your comments and its been around for a while. i lived in HK till 1982 and my father had a share in a leisure junk which was kept at Aberdeen. It was varnished with the Sam pan finish mostly and it didn't crack or bleach. It was done in the boatyard at Aberdeen back then as labour was still cheap. The boat was made of good quality hardwoods and I suspect that may have helped.
I don't know what it is but i do know it isn't new.
wazza
Well-Known Member
Come on boys, this is sounding like the 'Holy Grail' of bright work finishes.
There must be some way of finding out what the stuff is and where to get it, apart from China....
Amulet
Well-Known Member
I had it on spars and hatches. Spruce spars and utile hatches + "mahogany-faced" ply (probably one of the many species sold under names like "meranti").
Covered with several coats of Blakes two part polyurethane. Obviously not enough of the latter. Some failed because I didn't sand enough after the epoxy and the varnish peeled.
Some went dusty with UV damage. Some suffered because epoxy is not very abrasion resistant and where lines chafed (yes I know they shouldn't) it went down to the wood. Where I touched it up the bleached old varnish and the new didn't look the same colour.
Where it did get damaged it seemed to show the effect worse, trapping water under it and then tending to come off.
I have found that conventional varnish is more forgiving, and can be retouched and recoated for years and still look good. The problem is the long time between coats, meaning that putting on a dozen coats is a three week task (or more).
If I don't use conventional varnish I go for Skippers "six coats a day" system with two part polyurethane. I find it easier to lash lots of that on than epoxy, and it is UV resistant in its own right. There is even a high build gel one, which is equivalent to about 3 normal coats. It does bleach in the sun though.
ccscott49
Well-Known Member
Just use an epoxy white paint, or two pack polythingy! does the job easily.
oldsaltoz
Well-Known Member
If you plan to apply paint over the epoxy it needs to sanded lighly after wasging then a coat or two of high build epoxy primer, another light sanding then apply your paint of choice,
I would be looking for a long chain Polyurethane paint.
Epoxy will stick very well to almost anything, but it needs to be washed after curing and given a light sanding prior to coating.
Using a white filler in the epoxy is pretty good below decks but can start to yellow in the sun after a couple of years.
It is critical the a high UV resistant varnish is used and thet the epoxy is cleaned before sanding and cleaned again after sanding if a high UV varnish is to be applied.
Tip:
It's good practice to warm the timber being epoxied rather than warming the epoxy, the warmth in the timber will thin the epoxy and help achieve better penetration that in turn will produce a harder and therefore more difficult to damage surface.
Good luck and fair winds.
Amulet
Well-Known Member
Mad, I say... you're all obsessed with epoxy. If you can't be bothered with proper varnish why faff around epoxying, washing off amide blush, sanding and then coating with two part polyurethane. Forget the epoxy and do the whole job with the two part poly that you are going to put on top anyway. It's easy to apply, beautifully shiny, hard as hell, UV resistant and far more abrasion resistant than epoxy. Skippers "six coats a day" really is what it says. You'll finish the job in a day and a half with no intermediate washing and sanding. Epoxy mad...
Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
I can't agree with that.
PhillM
Well-Known Member
Re skippers, a guy who was helping me out talked me into three coats skippers, then 3 coats Epifanes last year on my gunwale. Its rubbish. Looked good for about 3 months then started to fail.
Everyhere else I did 6+ coats Epifanes and it still looks good. Will only need a light sand and a couple of coats to top it up (next time the sun shines).
Won't be using Skippers again. 6 coats in a day is useless if I've got to go back to bare wood every few months.
Everyhere else I did 6+ coats Epifanes and it still looks good. Will only need a light sand and a couple of coats to top it up (next time the sun shines).
Won't be using Skippers again. 6 coats in a day is useless if I've got to go back to bare wood every few months.
Rossynant
Well-Known Member
Yup.
Someone wants epoxy? Laminate the piece with epoxy and glass, who needs wood?
Or make it of wood and protect the wood, with whatever suits. Those are two different things. Both epoxy and poly resins covering fails mostly as wood below gets wet. Plastic offers no protection for wood in this situation.
There was a reason for laminating plywood hulls with some fabric and resin - this way it may be effectively isolated from water. Any fabric and any resin. May be done with polyurethane varnish and glass, as well as with epoxy. Not much difference.
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