Epoxy Primer

Javelin

Javelin

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Southwold
www.southwoldboatyard.co.uk
I need to re-coat my epoxy barrier coat.
Currently I have the Hempel GelProtect but after scraping away the years of dead antifoul the coating is looking distinctly 2nd hand in places.

At the yard here we use Awlgrip but it's very expensive.
We are trying out some Jotun Antifoul and I noticed their High Build Epoxy "PENGUARD EPOXY HB" looks significantly cheaper than their competitors.
Under £50 for 5 litres.

Is this a too good to be true product?
Has anyone got any experience of using this Penguard epoxy HB product?
 
I have experience of using it, but only as a deckhand on a sail-training ship, under orders from the bosun :). So I didn't carefully evaluate it against other options, or keep an eye on the result for years afterwards, I just took a bean-tin-full at a time from the bosun mixing it in the focsle, and slapped it on.

Easy enough to work with, though, and the ship wasn't a notable rust-bucket after ten years of using the stuff.

Pete
 
I and some friends were given a tub of Penguard by the local Jotun man. We slapped it on one guy's steel keel after sanding it down to remove rust. This seems to have been a real success. I ended up with the remnants (a lot) and used it as an epoxy for all sorts of repairs. It seems to be an epoxy with white filler. However more recently after a year or so the penguard will not go hard even after weeks in warmish weather. I presume it has gone off in some way. So basically I would say it is good stuff for what you want. It does take some stiring before use though. I have also used a product called "Boatcoat" this may be just a local (Oz) product which is just epoxy resin and useful for all sorts of jobs though I have not used it as a barrier coat. I get the impression any epoxy will be fine for your barrier coat. good luck olewill
 
Just to be clear,

Epoxy primer is used to prime a coat of epoxy.
It not applied before epoxy as a primer.

Epoxy will stick to almost anything, however not much sticks to epoxy without first priming it.

Good luck and fair winds. :)
 
Used Joton penguard on my Ali boat ,good product and as you say better priced.They have a London office and a very help fill chap called Peter Jones(I think)in marine paint section who can tell you what prep you will need to do.
Good luck
Bacus
 
oldsaltoz said:
Just to be clear,

Epoxy primer is used to prime a coat of epoxy.
It not applied before epoxy as a primer.

Epoxy will stick to almost anything, however not much sticks to epoxy without first priming it.

Good luck and fair winds. :)
Click to expand...

I was recently (last week) told by a ship builder and a shipright that International Gelshield 200 and International epoxy primer are one and the same. The 200 just being thicker.
 
oldsaltoz said:
That would be a primer for steel, not an epoxy promer,
Click to expand...

Yes, a primer for steel. An epoxy primer.

Are you suggesting you know better than the manufacturers?

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Pete
 
Interesting few days researching this.

Most of the manufacturers supply a trade only product for use in the yard.
Main difference being that its designed for Spray, pref airless spray.

However I also discovered there's a fair bit of marketing manipulation in play.
Essentially the same product in a different tin with a different name but those targeted for the Yachting market were around 30% more expensive and in one case nearly 100% more!

I need to tread lightly here as there is also supply pressure to ensure a yard only supplies products specifically earmarked for the yachting market and not sell a very similar product for a lot less aimed at a strictly commercial market.
In other words if we as a yard started to supply a product not approved we could find that they would simply stop supplying us with any product or at least this is the inference given to me by more than one supplier.
 
Javelin said:
I need to tread lightly here as there is also supply pressure to ensure a yard only supplies products specifically earmarked for the yachting market and not sell a very similar product for a lot less aimed at a strictly commercial market.
Click to expand...

It's a pain in the butt with Jotun products. They used to do a good range of no-nonsense paints for commercial shipping and fishing boats, at sensible prices. Some of us yotties started using it, in my case after coming across it on a ship as described above. A couple of years ago Jotun noticed this, decided there was money to be made, and brought out a range of "yachting" paints at higher prices while trying to limit access to the commercial stuff :(

Pete
 
oldsaltoz said:
Just to be clear,

Epoxy primer is used to prime a coat of epoxy.
It not applied before epoxy as a primer.

Epoxy will stick to almost anything, however not much sticks to epoxy without first priming it.

Good luck and fair winds. :)
Click to expand...

That's not how Blakes (now Hempel) see it. They have a two part epoxy primer, over which you apply a two pack polyurethane top coat. It's as tough as old boots.
 
I did my first treatment for Osmosis 32 years ago. At that time International were only selling International 308 (Single Pack) and I had bought a 9 year old boat (Nauticat 33) which had been treated for Osmosis 2 years before and it was bubbling up again.
In my Bodyshop we were using the "New" ICI, Two Pack Spray Paint, I was going to use it on the Nauticat and discussed it with the ICI paint rep. He told me that some firms had just started buying it from ICI, re-naming it, and selling it to the boating industry.
(I had already found out that if I was a Crane Hire Firm I could buy Marlow Ropes 40% cheaper than a Chandlery)
I was used to "Brushing" 2 Pack as although we sprayed the outside of a car if we were doing a colour change in some inexcessible places a brush was ideal. So since then I have brushed/rolled 2 Pack Car Paint ever since.
So leaping forwards to 2014 I was told about "Lechler" 2 Pack Epoxy which can be bought at many Car/Truck/Industrial Pain Factors and I have been using it on my present boat.
It costs ££10.86 a Litre (plus vat) A litre of hardener £11.05 (plus Vat) will do 4 litres. (I buy 1 1/2 Litres and ask them to put it in a 2 litre tin which leaves space for Hardener so I don't have to buy a mixing pot at a £1)
Although I am using this make many Car Paint Distributors will sell whichever make they specialise in.
Also a useful source of buying Orbital Sanding Discs at Trade. (5 Litres of Cellulose Thinners costs £10.02)
2 Pack Epoxy is also good for painting bilges (with a Brush/Roller)
A Good Colour For Bilges is Massey Ferguson Grey.
The white I use for Topsides, is Ford Diamond White.
And for the hull I am using British Racing Green.
 
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Well I bought two 5 litre tins of Punguard HB Epoxy via Ebay for £40 each.
One Grey and one White.
After the laborious job of scraping the bottom and then keying into the old epoxy with 80 grit I have decided that next time i'll get it Shot blasted, as we do normally.
Yeah it did save me £300 but boy it was hard graft.

I started with the Grey, mixing up 1/2 litre at a time and went through every type of roller we have.
Foam, Large West foam, Short mohair, fluffy mini.
In the end the Fluffy mini roller was the best.

Just like applying copper coat, the first coat does not cover very well at all but give it three or four minutes going over the area again seems to pull the epoxy off the roller.

Overall I've been impressed with Penguard HB.
It fills scratches well and as long as your are systematic you get a good uniform coat.

On this 34' boat one full coat worked out at 4 litres which allowed a litre each time for a bit extra on sling points and the normal cradle pad areas.

Using the grey first coat and then White also helped the process of ensuring full coverage.

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Have sprayed my Centaur using HVLP thinned at 10 - 15% went on a treat , sanded very well too, a great filler primer, i've also rolled it on to although it tends to eat them abit, dont see the point in paying the sort of money international and others charge.

Speak to Malcolm at wwwsmlmarinepaints.co.uk - a top bloke who knows his stuff.

Roger
 
Jotun do a low temp. additive for Penguard HB which is a big help if you are coating a hull in winter together with a comprehensive range of other paints all available at reasonable carriage costs from SML, most products come with comprehensive application/ mixing details, SML also supply suitable rollers at reasonable cost..
Over the years I have applied epoxy bottom primers by International, Awlgrip and Hempel and am happy to endorse both Jotun and SML.
 
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