EPIRB

I agree with this so strongly the "like" button wasn't enough! Stuff you use day to day works and gets replaced when it breaks and you know how to use it. Stuff that sits on a shelf for years, less so. As you say we all choose what works for us, but the case against "satellite emergency messengers" is pretty flimsy. (Personally, I'm too tight to pay the subscription!)
The subscription can be temporarily stopped when not in use. That, in my case, brings on need for a reminder note but is much cheaper.
Any relation between the need for a reminder, and my age, exists purely by chance by the way.....
 
Incorrect details would potentially be worse than no details.

I have a feeling that no details would be faster than correct details, because there are literally no checks they can do. The only way they can find out if it's legit is to send a helicopter, or whatever. If they have correct details they can phone you, phone your missus, phone your marina. It's all time ticking.

I'd love to know, if it were true they can hardly confirm that.
 
In the end safety is an illusion. I feel honoured that my doughter feels confidence in trusting her siblings to her sailing father. I don't take that for granted. On the other hand there are far more risks attached to daily life on the shore in a big city. No device can take these risks away.
So the best advice for the topic starter is to think about it (wich he obviously does), but don't make the decision to large. Just take off, enjoy and feel the adventure that comes with a little risk.
 
The only way they can find out if it's legit is to send a helicopter, or whatever.
On land, this is one reason I prefer the inReach devices: I can explain the problem, which may be the difference between a SAR team on foot being sent to assess, and a helicopter being dispatched immediately.

One other factor that's less appreciated: I can confirm my location, which in some types of terrain may actually matter. I like to think PLBs and the SARSAT system are improving over time, particularly with the MEOSAR layer, but in the mountains a rescue team getting bad coordinates can lead to poor outcomes.

At sea, PLB-sourced coordinates are more likely to be valid and, somewhat more importantly, a helicopter can home on them without having to ply "telephone" with coordinators on land to get a refreshed position.

I believe some PLBs and EPIRBs do have end-to-end testing, but it's limited to a handful of tests over the device lifespan to preserve battery. I very much like that I can regularly confirm end-to-end functionality with the inReach.
 
Overboard in the cold waters around the UK it's unlikely you'll survive long enough to be rescued by PLB
Anecdote is always dangerous but there are occasional stories of calmac ferries, fish farm work boats etc plucking people from the water because they were the closest asset. I also recall a RIB user in the Irish Sea going o/b and recovered something like 90 minutes later because of his PLB - I think probably wearing a drysuit as he didn’t even go to hospital.
I'd love to know, if it were true they can hardly confirm that.
I’ve heard Belfast CG making a PanPan call to try and locate the origins of an EPIRB (no vessel details were provided so I assume unregistered). I guess your first step might be to wait for the some position updates to see if it appears to be doing a speed that suggests it’s on a vessel or adrift. I guess each situation will get its own assessment - good weather in a fairly busy bit of the Clyde ultimately got a MOD plod response not a helo. I don’t know the outcome but it didn’t make the news so presumably was not a rescue!
 
I have a feeling that no details would be faster than correct details, because there are literally no checks they can do. The only way they can find out if it's legit is to send a helicopter, or whatever. If they have correct details they can phone you, phone your missus, phone your marina. It's all time ticking.

I'd love to know, if it were true they can hardly confirm that.
I suspect the coastguard team and lifeboat/helicopter can and will do a lot in parallel. If they get a PLB/EPIRB activation they can already start preparing while someone in the team is tasked with trying to contact the casualty/shore contact. If they still can't establish that the activation is a false alarm they will proceed as if it isn't and go ahead with whatever they have started preparing. Even after that, if they do manage to establish that there is no emergency the assets will be stood down.

Its just my guess but I don't think they leave time ticking, or at least not for long enough that would make any appreciable difference to someone's survival chances.
 
Its just my guess but I don't think they leave time ticking, or at least not for long enough that would make any appreciable difference to someone's survival chances.


Well yeah, if you're sitting in a Liferaft you're golden. But the scenario in this thread is MOB and in the Solent Area and many coastal areas if there's an immediate launch they'd likely get there (just) in time but every minute of delay could be catastrophic which is what we sadly see in the various MAIB reports.

Which isn't to say there's a flaw in the process, it's an inevitable consequence of a large number of false alarms.
 
My phone battery goes flat a few times a year. My EPIRB has never failed a self test in well over 10 years. It has also passed its transmission test when serviced. As for just sitting there out of sight out of mind, it is secure, safe from accidental damage, easily accessible. My phone on the other hand has been damaged multiple times. Garmin is a joke compared to an EPIRB.
 
I’ve heard Belfast CG making a PanPan call to try and locate the origins of an EPIRB (no vessel details were provided so I assume unregistered). I guess your first step might be to wait for the some position updates to see if it appears to be doing a speed that suggests it’s on a vessel or adrift.

Well yes, but even if it was registered they'd still want to know if it was on a vessel or adrift. So with a registered one they'd phone the owner and the contact. Clearly the owner can't be contacted because he's the casualty so they'd call his contact who would confirm he's on the water, but they already know whoever has the EPIRB is on the water because the EPIRB has gone off.

Or to put it another way, contact details and registration are a very good way to confirm false alarms. They are largely useless for confirming real alarms unless the casualty is contactable with 2 way comms, in which case presumably he'd already have called.
 
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Has anyone used the satellite "999" functions on the fanciest/newest phones? Clearly not going to be easy if you are actually in the drink, but potentially for a spouse left on board might be a nice bonus, my other worries are: medical emergency onboard in an anchorage with no vhf; injury wandering some uninhabited island whilst ashore; going off in the paddle board and finding I can't get back...
 
Well yes, but even if it was registered they'd still want to know if it was on a vessel or adrift. So with a registered one they'd phone the owner and the contact. Clearly the owner can't be contacted because he's the casualty so they'd call his contact who would confirm he's on the water, but they already know whoever has the EPIRB is on the water because the EPIRB has gone off.
yes the whole shore contact thing seems a bit odd - "is Mark at sea?" "No - he's at work" "Oh well his EPIRB had gone off mid channel, I guess we should send a lifeboat to see why"! I think its mostly a relic of the days before they were GPS enabled - because a good shore contact might narrow the search area. The one thing they *MIGHT* do is confirm which boat they are looking for (colour, name, description) and number of people on board. That might be more important for a PLB when you could be walking, paddling, sailing, powerboating...
But the scenario in this thread is MOB and in the Solent Area and many coastal areas
In the Solent your risk is getting run down not freezing to death! The OP is going to be somewhat more remote, with less readily available rescue resources and passing traffic but still not exactly out of reach. I would be genuinely surprised if he was ever out of both mobile phone and VHF coverage going from Cardiff to Glasgow. I think if he's planning 24/7 passages where he will be effectively singlehanded because the other person is asleep then a PLB starts to make a lot of sense, but you could argue a MOB alert / AIS MOB Locator might be valuable too.
if there's an immediate launch they'd likely get there (just) in time but every minute of delay could be catastrophic which is what we sadly see in the various MAIB reports.
I don't recall any case of a MOB who activated a PLB but where the rescue didn't arrive in time in UK waters?
 
I think that is a bit of linguistic semantics. Attempting to contact the shore contact and attempting to contact the vessel and others who may have sight of the vessel is part of the response rather than a pre-response step. Look at any MAIB report where an EPIRB or PLB has been the first distress alert and you’ll see a narrative of the timeline - it doesn’t work quite as magically as people would like to suggest.

Incorrect details would potentially be worse than no details. But “Yes they are sailing from Cardiff to Glasgow with 2 people on board, I last heard from them 12 hrs ago” potentially gets a different response from “unregistered”. Both will get a response. Even if the only difference was the content of an all ships broadcast to vessels in the area - they may be first on scene.
A member of this forum previously described the process from first hand experience. The response starts immediately in terms of finding assets that are able to respond. Contacting may happen alongside that but it in no way slows any actual response action.
 
AIS MOB Locator might be valuable too.

Agree re the AIS locator, but they can be combined anyway so best to buy the combination.

In the Solent your risk is getting run down not freezing to death!

I thought that. My single handed sailing is in daylight in good weather in one of the busiest waters in the planet. I couldn't really envisage a situation where I would be in the water long enough to cark it. Then one sunny Sunday Summer morning at 5am I found myself on a breezy day, boat heaving is sizeable waves, 3 miles SE of the IOW with a E'ly/SE'ly tide and I needed to urgently run to the bow. No leisure boats in sight. Single handed I routinely carry mobile phone and VHF around my neck, but of course, the one time it was critical to do so I hadn't. Still scares me to think about it. (Mind you, you couldn't have levered me off the boat with a crow bar so maybe the real danger was zero.)

Either way, maybe 99.9% of the time in the Solent you can summon help with a whistle. But things seem to go wrong in 00.1% of times when you're slightly off the beaten path at a weird time of day.

If I had my usual VHF and Mobilie I could have dialed 999 and raised ships in St Helens Anchorage. I'm pretty sure Frank Dunster sleeps in his boat at Sparks so I have no doubt I'd have been rescued within 30 minutes if I could have raised the alarm.


I don't recall any case of a MOB who activated a PLB but where the rescue didn't arrive in time in UK waters?

I count situations where people have sunk and ended up in the water as analogous to a MOB. And there have been some of those.
 
A member of this forum previously described the process from first hand experience. The response starts immediately in terms of finding assets that are able to respond. Contacting may happen alongside that but it in no way slows any actual response action.

He gave three totally conflicting accounts of the process. Two in the same thread! Nobody has found any confirmation of any of them. We just don't know. If one of his versions was correct, them obvs mobile phone and VHF are largely redundant; a nice to have. I'm not betting my life on that. (Although I nearly did which shows how careful you have to be online, even normally reliable sources bulls**t sometimes.)
 
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A member of this forum previously described the process from first hand experience. The response starts immediately in terms of finding assets that are able to respond. Contacting may happen alongside that but it in no way slows any actual response action.
But the MAIB reports don't seem to 100% agree with that assessment. I don't have time today to trawl back through them all but you need to be very careful analysing what "response starts" and "finding assets" means. Nobody is putting the kettle on. If the SOP is every EPIRB/PLB activation gets a helo/lifeboat assigned AS SOON AS THE MRCC RECEIVES IT then the MAIB reports seem to contradict this. Feel free to provide actual evidence that this routinely happens. I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't a SOP because each activation is unique, and dynamic. Part of the changing assessment being - do we know what the vessel is, and who is on board?
 
If the SOP is every EPIRB/PLB activation gets a helo/lifeboat assigned AS SOON AS THE MRCC RECEIVES IT then the MAIB reports seem to contradict this
That isn't what I said though. when there's an activation in local and relatively safe waters I'm sure more scrutiny is used and boats asked to look out. There have certainly been lots activated on ferries over the years.
What I actually said was that they immediately start finding assets. That means calling boats in the area and alerting rescue organisations. It takes time to get a rescue underway, and the type of rescue very much depends on location. In the Solent the first responder is very often a ferry that stands on and keeps eyes on the incident. On the open ocean, a first responder might be a container ship. It certainly won't be the RNLI or a helicopter as range precludes the possibility.
None of this waits for a contact to be called. Why would it?

I'm sure there have been incidents. That doesn't necessarily show bad process, it will often show process not being followed etc.
 
That isn't what I said though. when there's an activation in local and relatively safe waters I'm sure more scrutiny is used and boats asked to look out. There have certainly been lots activated on ferries over the years.
Which is why I called your previous post (#27) "a bit of linguistic semantics"!
What I actually said was that they immediately start finding assets.
Its the word I've highlighted in bold that makes me uneasy about people's assertions in this area. A typical response to a GPS confirmed position EPIRB/distress alert might be - from activation to UKCG receiving the alert ~ 5 min it is then passed to the relevant MRCC; you can expect them to immediately try to contacting the vessel, checking the databases, and other vessels in the area. The evidence seems to be that ordinarily they don't immediately task designated rescue assets - that happens either when something confirms the issue or when they fail to ascertain enough to rule out a false alarm.
That means calling boats in the area and alerting rescue organisations.
The evidence seems to be they are only calling the rescue organisations after at least some initial attempts to raise the vessel directly, see what local eyes can see, and or speak to shore contacts. Are those enquiries more likely to be productive if you know who/what you are looking for?
It takes time to get a rescue underway, and the type of rescue very much depends on location. In the Solent the first responder is very often a ferry that stands on and keeps eyes on the incident.
The solent seems like a prime example where knowing what you are looking for might be rather important. It does take time to get a rescue underway and from what I've seen, in UK waters, its unlikely a helo is airbourne or a lifeboat crew slipping lines in much <30 minutes from activating a PLB/EPIRB without something else confirming the likely distress.
On the open ocean, a first responder might be a container ship. It certainly won't be the RNLI or a helicopter as range precludes the possibility.
None of this waits for a contact to be called. Why would it?
You think that a mid atlantic EPIRB has them calling container vessels asking them to reroute before contacting the shore contacts or determining what the container ship should be looking for (aircraft, ship, sailing vessel, ocean rower) you are surely mistaken. Cheeky Rafiki were sent an email before anyone began to look for assets >20 minutes after the PLB activation, and this was on a vessel which CG were already aware was having problems.
I'm sure there have been incidents. That doesn't necessarily show bad process, it will often show process not being followed etc.
there's nothing I recall in the MAIB reports to suggest that people didn't follow the process (that would merit further probing on why - staffing, training, fatigue etc).
 
A typical response to a GPS confirmed position EPIRB/distress alert might be - from activation to UKCG receiving the alert ~ 5 min it is then passed to the relevant MRCC; you can expect them to immediately try to contacting the vessel, checking the databases, and other vessels in the area.
To me the idea of what counts as "immediate" has similar differences as with how far ahead the average leisure sailor might be thinking about collision avoidance vs a large ship.

On the topic of timing, my understanding is that to get a confirmed position in the pre-MEOSAR days could take 45-90 minutes: that's using GPS data plus a single good satellite pass, or two good satellite passes. I believe MEOSAR dropped that to 20 minutes or less, which allows plenty of time to make phone calls to contacts. I'd also assume 15 minutes or so is needed to pre-flight a helicopter.

My working assumption is that for an alert only delivered via PLB/EPIRB one should expect a 1-2 hour response time at best (i.e. in coastal waters), and anything better is a happy bonus. (I know that if I use the VHF and am sinking, I can expect a faster boat much sooner, and similarly if in a busy area.)
 
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