EPIRB or PLB?

[lustyd]

On this basis and my type of sailing and budget

But that's exactly the point Pete. You chose a PLB because it's right for your kind of sailing, although you have purposely disabled one of its most significant features by placing it inside a bag (on purpose, I know). I only replied to Bill because he specifically said there was no benefit of an EPIRB over a PLB which is quite wrong. You yourself listed benefits which do not match your sailing or boat. I didn't mean my reply to be hostile and don't think it's worded in a hostile way, I was simply saying that without knowing anything about his sailing it would appear that his experience has put him in a position where he is unable to see the benefit of the EPIRB. Spending a night in on a boat where you know rescue services are out of easy reach soon brings this into perspective, especially when VHF no longer reaches the coastguard and there are no ships in range either.

 

[SailorBill]

I didn't mean my reply to be hostile and don't think it's worded in a hostile way,

I didn't take your post in a hostile way.

I was simply saying that without knowing anything about his sailing it would appear that his experience has put him in a position where he is unable to see the benefit of the EPIRB.

Perhaps best to take my posts in this thread to be from a devil's advocate point of view with the intention of stimulating discussion...

 

[Frankie-H]

I am fascinated by the idea of doggy paddling in a force 9, when your boat has sunk and you have to keep your PLB out of the water as it might not float. Get real !! If your criteria are to be rescued in case of emergency, then get an in date EPIRB. If you want to save some money and have something you can show off to you safety conscious friends, then get a PLB. If you start off with the idea that you have to cover all eventualities, perhaps you should stay in front of your tellies. None of these things existed in days gone by and, by and large, no more of us died then, than now, with all the whistles and bells.

 

[photodog]

Who needs a epirb when you have a ensign?

As for a plb, I prefer to have a Aldis lamp tied to my waste so I can signal passing steamers should I go overboard.

All this electrickery won't keep you warm like a hip flask of rum.

 

[Coaster]

I am fascinated by the idea of doggy paddling in a force 9, when your boat has sunk and you have to keep your PLB out of the water...

You presumably do different boating to me.

Weather forecasting is pretty good these days. We never do passages of more than 2 days. If there was the remotest chance of weather getting anything like F9 we wouldn't be out. I suspect that applies to the vast majority of leisure sailors.

So for some of us the PLB is a decent choice.

 

[TheEcho]

Is the victim doggy paddling around because they aren't wearing a lifejacket? If so, the extra batteries on an EPIRB vs PLB will be irrelevant, as the F9 will drown them in no time at all.

If, however, the victim is wearing a lifejacket, the PLB instructions show the victim placing the PLB on the inflated part of the lifejacket, antenna pointing up, which will be probably be a similar height above water to the EPIRB, or higher. Both types of device will get the occasional dunking, but will keep transmitting when they are clear of water.

 

[Norman_E]

A thought on EPIRB and PLB run times. In both cases makers quote the minimum run time for the device, which in the case of my Kannad PLB is 24 hours. As the PLB can have up to 60 self tests and 10 GPS tests over the lifetime of its battery it is clear that its actual run time, unless close to the end of its battery life, will be longer. I suspect that as the device is guaranteed to work at temperatures down to -20C it will run for longer, if needed, at more normal temperatures.

 

[GrahamM376]

As most have agreed, the PLB & EPIRB do the same job in sending a distress signal, as well as a 121.5 signal for anyone nearby with DF equipment. Transmit times are different and the PLB in most cases needs to be held upright whereas the EPIRB floats the right way up. The EBIRB in an auto release capsule is very expensive and EPIRB battery replacements are often close to the cost of a new PLB.

In practical terms, an auto release EPIRB will only "auto" activate if the boat sinks, a manual one needs be activated by someone on board whereas a PLB falls into the sea with you if single handed or alone maybe on night watch.

Our EPIRB battery is now out of date but still self-testing OK so I'll keep it as backup and have bought a PLB.

 

[prv]

I am fascinated by the idea of doggy paddling in a force 9, when your boat has sunk and you have to keep your PLB out of the water as it might not float. Get real !! If your criteria are to be rescued in case of emergency, then get an in date EPIRB.

If my boat has sunk, then I hope I've managed to evacuate to the liferaft. If things happened so fast that I couldn't get at the liferaft and the attached grab-bag, would I have managed to get a (manual) EPIRB instead?

Once we're in the liferaft, the next step is to initiate a rescue. A handheld VHF isn't going to work unless there's someone quite nearby, flares likewise (actually the nominal range of a parachute flare is greater than a handheld), and visual signalling with a sun mirror or a strobe light is less reliable still. I have all of those things in my grab bag (belt and braces...) but the primary means of summoning help is the PLB. I can't see a problem with holding it while sitting in a raft.

If you start off with the idea that you have to cover all eventualities, perhaps you should stay in front of your tellies

Quite. I'm covering one eventuality here - that of the boat flooding too fast to save, but not instantly blown to smithereens without warning. I'm happy to take the risk on the latter, and not spend thousands on automatic raft and beacon, which would be essential in that scenario (plus a healthy dose of luck).

Pete

 

[Frankie-H]

Yes you are right. Ocean sailing is a different mind set. You do not deliberately go out to court rough weather but if it comes, it comes and you make the best of it. There is no diving into a safe haven or dropping the hook to ride it out. Do you ware a life jacket every time you go sailing ? There are a lot of people who do. I only ever wear one at night or in particularly bad weather during the daytime, if I have to go on deck.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

The main difference is the method of activation and the time it will transmit. However, it's only a matter of time before PLBs will auto activate and last longer than 24hrs. It's just technological advancement driven by the market. Back in the 80/90's in my military LSJ I had a neat little PLB that transmitted on 121.5 and 243 but it also had a handy talk function so once the rescue team were close by I could have a chat. The first manufacturer who builds a ch16 radio into their PLB will sell tonnes of them.

As for battery life we were trained to turn them off after a few hours and back on periodically depending on where we had ditched/force landed. I would do the same with a PLB these days after an initial long burst on one hour every 6 should do the trick.

We also had some very cute mini flares that looked cool at squadron parties ;-)

 

[prv]

As for battery life we were trained to turn them off after a few hours and back on periodically depending on where we had ditched/force landed. I would do the same with a PLB these days after an initial long burst on one hour every 6 should do the trick.

The MCA specifically say not to do this, although I don't know why they say that. I wonder if ChanelYacht can explain?

Pete

 

[Buck Turgidson]

The MCA specifically say not to do this, although I don't know why they say that. I wonder if ChanelYacht can explain?

Pete

I can think of a couple of reasons for example if you were in a crowded sailing area and the rescue vessel turned up while you had it off they may have trouble working out which is the boat in trouble or if you were at the limit of a Helo's range and he's got a 5 hour old position he might get to his fuel reserve before finding you if you've drifted a lot.

The exact circumstance would dictate exactly what I chose to do. No point transmitting a super accurate position for 24 hours when the nearest assistance is 3 days away.

 

[snowleopard]

It's a very simple decision. If you're going trans-ocean, get an EPIRB, if your cruising is coastal with hops to France a PLB is fine.

Either can be used in a liferaft but the PLB is also small enough to sit in the pocket of someone alone on watch at night which has to be a bonus.

 

[snowleopard]

Our EPIRB battery is now out of date but still self-testing OK so I'll keep it as backup and have bought a PLB.

Last time I ran the self-test on mine, a couple of years after the battery should have been replaced, I got a call on my mobile from Falmouth CG asking if I was in distress!

 

[Koeketiene]

The MCA specifically say not to do this, although I don't know why they say that.

Because a non-continuous alarm can be down to equipment failure.

 

[KellysEye]

We had an Epirb for the life raft on the premise that using harnesses, tethers and jackstays at night and in bad weather nobody would go overboard. If they do and you are two handed the chances of finding the MOB are little to none. I say that because coming up the Portuguese coast we were taking waves over the boat, a water container was washed of the side deck as was an inflatable Danbuoy on the starboard quarter rail. It inflated fine but disappeared in the waves in about 10 seconds. Bear in mind a Danbuoy is much higher than a head. If you have been on a sea survival course the effect of cold water is hypothermia, a total loss of coordination followed by death. If you can't find the MOB then the time taken by rescue services to get to the MOB with a PLB is likely to be too long. In the tropics it's a different matter.

 

[TheEcho]

Sounds like an AIS MOB gizmo and boat AIS receiver would be best for that application,so the boat can track the person down. Am I right that you can't get combined AIS and PLB?

 

[prv]

Sounds like an AIS MOB gizmo and boat AIS receiver would be best for that application

That's always been my take on it, for a crewed boat. You do need to make sure you have a decent display unit though, one that recognises an AIS SART and behaves appropriately, rather than treating it as a kind of ship.

Am I right that you can't get combined AIS and PLB?

To the best of my knowledge that remains true. Maybe one day...

Pete

 

[TheEcho]

You do need to make sure you have a decent display unit though, one that recognises an AIS SART and behaves appropriately, rather than treating it as a kind of ship.

Set a course for the good ship Mob!