Ensign Etiquette

[Nomads]

Morning all

Help about the etiquette of Ensigns and Flags please.

I’ve been on the water for thousands of hours (inland and offshore) in Ribs, Power, Cruiser, Sail and Sports Boats, am a gold member of the RYA, hold around 20 or so qualifications, have undertaken research on dive boats, worked on various river systems and been a coxswain of a safety boat for many seasons, I still do not fully understand the Ensign Etiquette and if it is willy waving.

If you are new to the water, have some spare money of course we all know there is nothing to stop you purchasing that Linssen, Broom, Fairline, Stevens etc, getting in with a club and having a few friends nominating you. Then of course a few dinners and drinks and you are a fully fledged member and get a Blue Ensign.

Then with the Blue Ensign proudly on display from the stern the Captain of his new ship can proceed to leave the marina / harbour and if on the Thames proceed to a lock and queue and wait. The boat can then proceed to do this all day through locks showing the Blue Ensign proudly on display and all the bystanders thinking what a true professional or w@*ker.

In relation then to these Blue Ensigns, is it a good idea to have one. Are user’s labelled rude names, are owners of boats wearing a Blue generally trying to prove something (a bit like driving a sports car around Knightsbridge, or a Chelsea 4 x 4 for a school run).

If the boat does wear a Blue, does it affect your boating? Does it make insurance cheaper, do you gain preferential treatment when coming into harbour, are there really any good reasons to show any Ensign?

In relation to a collision, if wearing a Blue, is it presumed that you are more experienced at crewing so are less likely to be at fault? Or does it mean that being a professional, you should of taken avoiding action and thus are more to blame for not taking the avoiding action?

What is the practice of using these on inland tidal waters, is it law? If related to Royalty, can the Union Jack be worn on a boat?

Is it better to have nothing on display (which is what I currently do).

Help is appreciated, thank you.

 

[Portofino]

Welcome
Display one of these rarther than nowt
Which ever is most applicable ,not illegal and you feel comfortable with .UK citizens live in a highly regarded tolerant society .i would,t fly a white .Default is a red
https://flagspot.net/flags/gb-blenr.html

 

[Poignard]

Nomads.

I'm trying to work out what exactly is the real purpose of this, your first post?

Perhaps someone with a blue ensign been unkind to you and this is a way of relieving your wounded feelings or maybe you just have an inferiority complex.

But anyway, why should anyone who wants to have a blue ensign give a toss about what you think?

Should people who are thinking of getting one seek your opinion first? I always thought that the right to have a blue ensign was something given by Her Majesty the Queen, I didn't realise that you had to be consulted as well.

 

[superheat6k]

I Fly a Blue Ensign, guess that may place me as qualifying for your accolade of w@*ker. Do I care ? - No.

(plenty flying other flags equally (or perhaps better) qualify of course)

Do I save on insurance ? - not a question that has ever come up - so No

Am I a snob ? - at some level I guess so, but then that likely goes for most of us.

Did I pay for a few Dinners to join the suitable 'Club ? - No

Chelsea tractor equivalent ? - hardly

Preferential treatment ? no

Affects on boat handling ? None

Have no idea about use inland

A Union Flag is only a 'Union Jack' when flown from the Jackstaff of a Royal Navy Warship in commission.

Will I continue to Fly the Blue ? - yes

Should you get one ? - your decision if of course you can gain the proper permission to do so.

 

[[2068]]

It's pretty simple: flying the Ensign shows your nationality.

In the UK, the Red Ensign is something everyone can fly, as used by the Merchant Navy. Some that are entitled to fly blue, stick with red, as a matter of principle.

Defaced Blue Ensigns show that you are a member of a club, association, or government department. And that's it. It doesn't mean you have superior boat handling skills, a posh accent, or can demand priority access to the bar.

An undefaced Blue Ensign is a bi special. People doff their cap to you as you walk by. There will be no queue at the club bar, and the barman greets you by name.

A White Ensign means that you are either a large grey ship with helicopters, guns, F35C's, or that you are a member of the Royal Yacht Squadron, and Princess Anne is on your Christmas Card List.

Hope this helps.

.

 

[Poignard]

An undefaced Blue Ensign is an entirely different matter. People doff their cap to you as you walk by.

There's no fun in that; deference is so tedious. Much more satisfying to have the hoi-polloi screaming abuse and gnashing their rotten teeth.

 

[oldgit]

Me club is entitled to permit club members to fly a blue ensign if they want to.
You have to be club member for at least two years and have to apply to fly it.
90% of the club fly a red ensign.
This has probably more to do with the fact that is what was in the flag locker when they bought the boat and that blues are blimming expensive compared to reds.

There will be no queue at the club bar, and the barlady greets you by name.

....If only !

Looking at the antics of boats mooring up ,ensign colour is def. no guide to competence.

 

[Firefly625]

always bemuses me that someones first post on a forum would be that of an aggressive rant at probably a significant percentage of other forum members.... however lets run with it.

I fly a red ensign as most of us do, it is put out when we wake in the morning and is put away at sunset. It is never left out over night and indeed have found it fun over the years to dip the ensign when passing a Royal Navy ship, about 20% of which have dipped their ensign back. My father applied for a warrant to fly a blue ensign and does. Its also a 2 yard ensign so looks magnificent. The reason he applied for a warrant.. a just a bit of fun and that's what boating is all about. Getting worked up and angry, calling people you have never even met rude names because of the colour of their ensign.............really??

Our next door neighbour at Mercury is in the squadron and flys the white ensign, frankly I think that looks splendid. As I'm in a "trade" and certainly a member of the hoi-polloi I couldn't even apply to join the RYS so have absolutely no hope in hell of every getting one of those... would I if I could? Hell yes!

 

[Pinnacle]

I couldn't even apply to join the RYS so have absolutely no hope in hell of every getting one of those... would I if I could? Hell yes!

Don't feel too bad about it.........nobody can apply! (You need to be invited)

 

[Nomads]

Thanks for the comments.

I was not ranting at all, and have given up many hours of my time for RYA Sailability along with other clubs. I was / am purely asking, is a Blue a good idea in modern Britain? Are there really any benefits or is a Red better? Or nothing at all / going naked? Is it like the Emperors new clothes?

I thought the Insurance and collision queries could be interesting. Have any precedents been set recently? So as before, if wearing a Blue, would that make you a more qualified Cox? Do you get cheaper insurance? What if a collision, are you more experienced so are more liable, and should of taken avaiding action? Are you ever harassed / embarrassed and does this make the boating experience tarred?

Thanks for the comments so far, and i'm sure we all agree we all enjoy spending time messing about on the water.

Not me but a fun thing to watch - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfY3BE9WRAc

 

[Firefly625]

Don't feel too bad about it.........nobody can apply! (You need to be invited)

indeed invitation only... but I know my neighbour was invited, after he made it clear he wished to be..

 

[Nomads]

Good Morning

You seem quite hostile and rather rude.

However, I have never had any trouble on the water, but by your tone, are the sort of person that I would not want to be associated with, why would people post comments on this forum or others to have people like you be so rude?

Your reply is exactly the sort of reason why many people keep themselves to themselves and don't go on forums. I have asked some genuine questions and with rules, regs, by-laws changing, am trying to work out the best way forward for all my boats over the next decades.

Thanks again for your comment.

Nomads.

I'm trying to work out what exactly is the real purpose of this, your first post?

Perhaps someone with a blue ensign been unkind to you and this is a way of relieving your wounded feelings or maybe you just have an inferiority complex.

But anyway, why should anyone who wants to have a blue ensign give a toss about what you think?

Should people who are thinking of getting one seek your opinion first? I always thought that the right to have a blue ensign was something given by Her Majesty the Queen, I didn't realise that you had to be consulted as well.

 

[bigwow]

indeed invitation only... but I know my neighbour was invited, after he made it clear he wished to be..

Bit like the Freemasons then:nonchalance:

 

[blueglass]

Thanks for the comments.

I was not ranting at all

No you werent and I have just reread your initial post to see why some folks have taken a pop at you. Can't see any reason other than some folks are just a bit like that. Ignore them and welcome to the forum.
My take on the blue? they look very pretty but mean absolutely nothing.

 

[chinita]

I wear my blue when I feel like it. Costs £15.00 a year to the Royal Artillery Yacht Club, who taught me to sail 40 odd years ago. I like to think I am acknowledging my appreciation of that.

I doubt I would be interested in one of the Cruising Association type blues. Means nothing to me.

Don't care what other people think except to say that, when I sail in Portugal, I have been told (several times) that they regard the blue as the flag of some sort of aristocrat.

 

[henryf]

Good Morning

You seem quite hostile and rather rude.

However, I have never had any trouble on the water, but by your tone, are the sort of person that I would not want to be associated with, why would people post comments on this forum or others to have people like you be so rude?

Your reply is exactly the sort of reason why many people keep themselves to themselves and don't go on forums. I have asked some genuine questions and with rules, regs, by-laws changing, am trying to work out the best way forward for all my boats over the next decades.

Thanks again for your comment.

Hi there Nomads and welcome to the forum.

For a first post, where no one knows your writing style or personality your words might be taken as hostile.

"I've been on the water for ever am qualified to the hilt but see no reason to fly a blue ensign."

"Blue ensigns are flown by people new to boating with no skill but enough money to buy their way into an appropriate club."

"People think those who fly blue ensigns are knobs."

Ok so an edited version but that's what some people will have read. You may or may not have intended it to be so but that's how it could be taken.

Words on a forum lack the subtle nuances of the spoken word so you need to be careful what you write.

Keep smiling

Henry

 

[epervier]

Morning all

Help about the etiquette of Ensigns and Flags please.

I’ve been on the water for thousands of hours (inland and offshore) in Ribs, Power, Cruiser, Sail and Sports Boats, am a gold member of the RYA, hold around 20 or so qualifications, have undertaken research on dive boats, worked on various river systems and been a coxswain of a safety boat for many seasons, I still do not fully understand the Ensign Etiquette and if it is willy waving.

If you are new to the water, have some spare money of course we all know there is nothing to stop you purchasing that Linssen, Broom, Fairline, Stevens etc, getting in with a club and having a few friends nominating you. Then of course a few dinners and drinks and you are a fully fledged member and get a Blue Ensign.

Then with the Blue Ensign proudly on display from the stern the Captain of his new ship can proceed to leave the marina / harbour and if on the Thames proceed to a lock and queue and wait. The boat can then proceed to do this all day through locks showing the Blue Ensign proudly on display and all the bystanders thinking what a true professional or w@*ker.

In relation then to these Blue Ensigns, is it a good idea to have one. Are user’s labelled rude names, are owners of boats wearing a Blue generally trying to prove something (a bit like driving a sports car around Knightsbridge, or a Chelsea 4 x 4 for a school run).

If the boat does wear a Blue, does it affect your boating? Does it make insurance cheaper, do you gain preferential treatment when coming into harbour, are there really any good reasons to show any Ensign?

In relation to a collision, if wearing a Blue, is it presumed that you are more experienced at crewing so are less likely to be at fault? Or does it mean that being a professional, you should of taken avoiding action and thus are more to blame for not taking the avoiding action?

What is the practice of using these on inland tidal waters, is it law? If related to Royalty, can the Union Jack be worn on a boat?

Is it better to have nothing on display (which is what I currently do).

Help is appreciated, thank you.

I have to take issue with your comments, yes my boat handling skills could be called into question from time to time,(I'm still learning, only been at it for 55 years) but that could be said for most skippers, my boat wears a undefaced blue, not because I bought into a club, but purely because I'm ex RN and a member of the RNSA., which is not about money, but if you served your country, I agree that some perceive permit holders as knobs, I even bought the hat and matching tie

And I drive one of these, but not round Chelsea, my children are 45 and 43 years old so I don't pick them up from school anymore. Generalisation sometimes doesn't apply.

 

[Tranona]

Your reply is exactly the sort of reason why many people keep themselves to themselves and don't go on forums. I have asked some genuine questions and with rules, regs, by-laws changing, am trying to work out the best way forward for all my boats over the next decades.

What a strange thing to say. Anyone can come on this forum if they feel it is of value to them. They can just read or contribute as they think fit.

What are all these changes in "rules, regs and bye laws" you refer to? Not aware of any changes related to what ensign you fly. How should what ensign people fly affect how you "work out the best way forward for all my boats over the next decades"?

Your posts have all the characteristics of a troll.

 

[symondo]

I have to take issue with your comments, yes my boat handling skills could be called into question from time to time,(I'm still learning, only been at it for 55 years) but that could be said for most skippers, my boat wears a undefaced blue, not because I bought into a club, but purely because I'm ex RN and a member of the RNSA., which is not about money, but if you served your country, I agree that some perceive permit holders as knobs, I even bought the hat and matching tie

And I drive one of these, but not round Chelsea, my children are 45 and 43 years old so I don't pick them up from school anymore. Generalisation sometimes doesn't apply.

NICE MOTOR!!

I dont fully understand the flag thing. what is it for? I think there is a red ensign on our motorboat but what does it mean? I've never really understood the 'you must fly this and not that' with these flags. Can anyone put me in the right dirction of reading or explain why?

 

[oldgit]

"I dont fully understand the flag thing. what is it for? I think there is a red ensign on our motorboat but what does it mean? I've never really understood the 'you must fly this and not that' with these flags. Can anyone put me in the right dirction of reading or explain why"

Basically an appreciation (from even us unworthy Republicans ) that in times gone past many civilians in the merchant marine gave their all under the Red Ensign and that is why I fly one of them on my boat.