Ensign etiquette

[jonjo]

Originally Posted by Lizzie_B
It's ridiculous to make pre conceived assumptions about what a person is like either in character or boat handling skills on the basis of the ensign hanging off the back of his boat.

Well said.

If I encountered in real life the ignorance, inverted snobbery, silliness and sheer pettiness that this particular topic invokes in cyber life, I would be very depressed. Happily, I don't.

Obviously were have not met.

Assessing a yachtsman by analysis of his flag etiquette served me well last month.

I was heading up the tidal Valaine estuary in France last month when I noted I was going to pass a large yacht coming down stream. At a 1/3 of a mile I said to the swmbo, "he looks like trouble, anyone sporting a Breton regional flag large enough to fly on a Napoleonic ship of the line must have a few loose screws".

As the yacht approached his placement in the narrow channel was all over the place and I took in the details of the passing Bruce Roberts'esc steel tamp yacht. The crew were a bunch of hippys all beered up and larking about on deck and I doubt the helmsperson had every heard of "red to red, go ahead".

The combination of oddball steel yacht designs and overt political statements made with flags tends to equate to poor yacht handling. That's my rule of the road.

 

[Lizzie_B]

Oh dear. You really don't know the reasons why some clubs were granted the right to issue these warrants, do you? There is, indeed, a proud history there. If you know the reasons, you might realise that there is no less reason to be "proud" of them than there is of the red. After all, you weren't the one freezing on the Murmansk convoys, were you?

I agree, but to be totally pedantic, these clubs no longer issue warrants, they hold a warrant and issue permits to any member a) whose vessel meets certain criteria, and b) who applies to the club for a permit.

 

[electrosys]

There is no requirement for a british owned private leisure craft to wear an ensign of any sort within British territorial waters.

Indeed:

Merchant Shipping Act 1995 (c. 21)

5 Duty to show British flag

(1) Subject to subsection (2) below, a British ship, other than a fishing vessel, shall hoist the red ensign or other proper national colours—

(a) on a signal being made to the ship by one of Her Majesty’s ships (including any ship under the command of a commissioned naval officer); and

(b) on entering or leaving any foreign port; and

(c) in the case of ships of 50 or more tons gross tonnage, on entering or leaving any British port.

(2) Subsection (1)(c) above does not apply to a small ship (as defined in section 1(2)) registered under Part II.

So it would seem that you don't even need to fly (or wear, if you must) the duster in foreign waters - only when entering or leaving foreign ports.

 

[Litotes]

I agree, but to be totally pedantic, these clubs no longer issue warrants, they hold a warrant and issue permits to any member a) whose vessel meets certain criteria, and b) who applies to the club for a permit.

You are quite correct I'm not a permit holder myself, but just find the attitude on display towards those who are very tedious.

My own red ensign only sees the light of day when I am in foreign waters.

 

[Litotes]

The combination of oddball steel yacht designs and overt political statements made with flags tends to equate to poor yacht handling. That's my rule of the road.

And do you make similar judgments based on which ensign people use? I hope not.

 

[Lakesailor]

The crew were a bunch of hippys all beered up and larking about on deck and I doubt the helmsperson had every heard of "red to red, go ahead".

The combination of oddball steel yacht designs and overt political statements made with flags tends to equate to poor yacht handling. That's my rule of the road.

You are joking. Aren't you?
This is a troll. Isn't it?

 

[MYStargazer]

snapshot of ensign colours
http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/trainin...day/ship-s-badges-and-flags/the-white-ensign/

“…a large red cross was placed on the White Ensign to differentiate it from the French ensign, which at the time was plain white.”

Seems about right, then.

 

[Cliveshep]

You are joking. Aren't you?
This is a troll. Isn't it?

As the reply made to the toffee-nosed yachtsman in reply to his "what kind of ensign do you call that, it's a positive disgrace" remark,

"It''s me washin' yer prat"

"When you have regard to the little boats you carve up with your great fuel burning gin palaces, show courtesy and consideration apart from colregs, can come alongside without demolishing great chunks of jetty or ripping out half the pontoon anchors, when you can go astern out of the berth without smashing up two or three other boats in the process, then you might possible have the right to ask about my washing or comment on my ensign."

I'm grumpy, my 4 x 4's in the garage with parts not arriving 'till Monday and I should have left to go on holiday yesterday!

No doubt by the time I get the car back and am many hundreds of pounds the worse off, the sun will have gone and the rain returned!

Gonna go down the garden and eat worms!

 

[Sixpence]

You are joking. Aren't you?
This is a troll. Isn't it?

If it looks like a troll, and smells like a troll, you know Jonjo's back

 

[Fourbees]

I know a chap who's in the RNSA and entitled to wear a blue ensign; however, he hoists his red one whenever he thinks he's about to make a hash of a berthing manoeuvre or any other boat-handling challenge. I watched him mess up leaving the Yealm once - red ensign displayed - but as soon as he was over the bar and sailing well he switched to the blue...

 

[markleuty]

I know a chap who's in the RNSA and entitled to wear a blue ensign; however, he hoists his red one whenever he thinks he's about to make a hash of a berthing manoeuvre or any other boat-handling challenge. I watched him mess up leaving the Yealm once - red ensign displayed - but as soon as he was over the bar and sailing well he switched to the blue...

Love it!!!!

 

[Searush]

I know a chap who's in the RNSA and entitled to wear a blue ensign; however, he hoists his red one whenever he thinks he's about to make a hash of a berthing manoeuvre or any other boat-handling challenge. I watched him mess up leaving the Yealm once - red ensign displayed - but as soon as he was over the bar and sailing well he switched to the blue...

Yeah right. So he KNOWS when things are going to go wrong then? Or does he plan for them to go wrong? What planet does he come from?

Most of us do not expect to make a balls up. It will be totally unexpected. if we could see it coming we would be able to do something about it & stop it happening. We may (and should) review the event afterwards to figure out what went wrong so we can add that knowledge to our defences for next time.

 

[ash12]

im seeing more and more boats with blue ensigns that shouldnt have them. we have on but we belong to a club who is allowed.

 

[Iota]

I find it amazing that anyone would want to fly anything BUT the Red....

.

Does it really matter what colour ensign someone fly's?

 

[Searush]

im seeing more and more boats with blue ensigns that shouldnt have them. we have on but we belong to a club who is allowed.

Your club may have a warrant, but have they issued you with a permit & does your boat comply with the relevant requirements? Or is it just kept in a locker?

 

[pyrojames]

I think we have more durable materials these days.

Doesn't mean they live for ever though. If you bring a flag down when unwanted/sighted, then it lasts longer regardless of what it is made from.

 

[Lizzie_B]

I know a chap who's in the RNSA and entitled to wear a blue ensign; however, he hoists his red one whenever he thinks he's about to make a hash of a berthing manoeuvre or any other boat-handling challenge. I watched him mess up leaving the Yealm once - red ensign displayed - but as soon as he was over the bar and sailing well he switched to the blue...

Maybe he doesn't have a permit and only puts the blue up when he's out of sight of the local commodore's house lest he should be reported to HQ and blackballed (with hot tar of course) and keel hauled :-(

 

[ADLS]

Once in Ramsgate I came back to the boat to see my red ensign missing, I was just getting ready to go off on one when I found it neatly rolled up in the cockpit. With a note stating I was'nt onboard so should not have been wearing the flag.

Another half days wear & tear saved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jonjo]

Originally Posted by jonjo
The combination of oddball steel yacht designs and overt political statements made with flags tends to equate to poor yacht handling. That's my rule of the road.

And do you make similar judgments based on which ensign people use? I hope not.

Actually the subject of ensign etiquette bores me and I do not recall contributing to an ensign thread at YBW.com in the past 7 years.

But one of my take-aways from a recent Brittany cruise is that there are is a sizable contingent of yachting nutters afloat who have a strange compulsion to broadcast their political view about regional politics to the world with absurdly sized regional flags. In the case I highlighted above the Breton flag was 5' x 4'.

Furthermore there is a strong statistical association between MABs or steel yachts and such political statements.

 

[bilbobaggins]

I It's ridiculous to make pre conceived assumptions about what a person is like either in character or boat handling skills on the basis of the ensign hanging off the back of his boat.

P'rhaps not, when aforesaid 'muggle' is hoisting his upside-down blue ensign in his droopy underpants, in an acclaimed northern Scilly Isles anchorage. It's enuff to make grizzled RN Seaman Officers weep into their breakfast tonics ( G-style ).

Speaking of which, I seem to recall that 'a serving naval officer' is empowered to confiscate a blue ensign improperly worn, or where the warrant holder is not on board, or there's no warrant document on board..... and I think that extends to Officers ( RM ).

Puts a new light on 'Stop and search' powers.....