Engine swamping-What next skipper

DAKA

DAKA

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Your boat has part sunk while sat on its moorings , your engines haven't been run underwater but they have been submerged for at least 24 hours.
Engine bay is now empty of salt water.

What is your best way to mitigate your loss..............
You only bought the boat a month ago and bellows/stern glands haven't been changed for 5 years (you had even booked a lift out next week to do that) you're not going to get much help from your insurers as this happened gradually .

( this is the usual 40ft twin diesel ).

What next ?
 
adey said:
If you're insured with HKJ, tow it out to deep water and sink it?..
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HKJ are not the only insurers to exclude gradual engine swamping .
Please dont turn this into another insurance battering thread , we need to know how to salvage a swamped engine.
 
DAKA said:
Your boat has part sunk while sat on its moorings , your engines haven't been run underwater but they have been submerged for at least 24 hours.
Engine bay is now empty of salt water.

What is your best way to mitigate your loss..............
You only bought the boat a month ago and bellows/stern glands haven't been changed for 5 years (you had even booked a lift out next week to do that) you're not going to get much help from your insurers as this happened gradually .

( this is the usual 40ft twin diesel ).

What next ?
Click to expand...

Engines out, washed, drained from oil, dried, fresh oil and filters, Start up and run for 2-3 hours.
Back in boat and get those sterndrives serviced first plse
 
Mashed-up from another forum:

####

Three broad problem areas; mechanical, electrical, and electronic.

Mechanical: the longer you leave it, the greater the risk of having to fully strip it down, and the risk of needing to replace or recondition parts.
Corrosion starts immediately. You cannot delay - drop the oil, remove the injectors, whatever - blow out with compressed air. Starter motor and all relays will be full of water. Remove starter - flush with metho - immerse in metho to absorb all water. Set up to drain then blow out to clear all water and metho - strip if needed, solenoid may be a problem - replace if needed. Refit starter. Replace air filter if fitted. If fuel system compromised, fully drain and replace all filters. Use an outboard tank as a temporary fuel tank, with clean fresh fuel. Flush fuel pump with clean fuel.

Replace oil filter. Fill sump with normal quantity of oil. Battery if submerged is probably stuffed (whoa lethal chlorine gas emitted in salt water), replace. Attempt to crank engine over to expel water out injector holes. Hope starter works. Inject metho into chambers to absorb water. Crank engine to expel. Inject fuel into chambers (bit of oil for lube and to stop further rusting. crank to expel. Reassemble. Hook up water to engine flush fitting. Get engine going and run for at least long enough to get warm. Longer the better. Change the oil again, run it, repeat until oil looks normal after running.

Electrical components: many of these are electromechanical. The worst of the damage will have been done in the first few minutes, while there was still some remaining charge in the battery, as a result of electrolysis. Thereafter damage will be slower, but any ferrous parts will gradually corrode independently of battery-driven current.

Electronic components: these will be very suspect, even if immersion was only brief, but you just might get away with it. First essentials are to get rid of any salt, and any corrosion products. For salt, it should be sufficient to wash copiously in warm fresh water (obviously with no power source connected) then leave in a warm place to dry thoroughly. For corrosion products you will have more of a problem; if superficial you may get away with the same technique; if deeply contaminated and/or if circuit significantly eaten away you may have to replace the component or the circuit.

Speed of remedial work is the essence.

####
 
DAKA said:
Its not a DIY job with the 5L oil we carry on board then !
Anyone know how much that list costs ?
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With an old fashioned mechanical diesel and some luck, you could be back in business for hundreds.
With something like a modern D4 / D6 it's going to be thousands if the ECUs and solenoids have all gone.
 
There was a similar topic on an Irish boat forum a few years ago but in relation to dropping outboards into the drink. I think some people mentioned flushing it with diesel? Is that a good idea?
 
As others have said time is of the essence.

You need to get the engines running ASAP. Drain oil/water and fill with fresh. Remove starter dunk in fresh water then WD 40 [ Buy a couple of gallons or more not silly spray cans. ]

YOU DO NOT NEED TO DO ANYTHING TO THE INJECTION SYSTEM IF IT IS MECHANICAL. Just supply some fresh diesel to the injection pump or lift pump. Using a dinghy gas tank works as a temp tank.

If the batteries are sealed type they will be OK. IF not they are likely toast anyway buy/borrow a starter battery and get them going.

Run for 30 mins and then change oil.

Anything electrical rinse with fresh and dunk in WD 40. You can try doing same with electronics some may be sufficiently sealed to survive.

N.B. If there is a local boat salvage company they may do it for you for a price.

Whatever you do do it quickly, corrosion will start in hours not weeks.
 
Seen lots of engines fully submerged and stopped dead whilst playing in old quarries deep water etc, last one we saw we gave the guy a hand to pull the glow plugs out, remove pipe from intercooler to manifold crank it over blowing the water out of the cylinders, plugs back in but pipe still off, start and run fine, rev it to blow intercooler clear, refit pipe and drive home, this particular engine had actually bent a rod, but got the guy 50 miles home!
If it was mine would do the same and change the oil a couple of times and see how it goes, i have also killed numerous alternators and starters again in deep water, but its not the water that screws them its the mud thats acts as a grinding paste.
Saw another one a few months ago, same thimng trying to drive deep water and not having a snorkel;) we gave him some advice and when we came back a little while later it was running, this was the later engine full ecu control, the ecu itself was actually submerged as well.
Should add this is obviously not salt water?
 
There is a massive difference between salt water flooding & fresh water I'v done several engines sunk in fresh water & as stated above fairly easy once you get the water out

I fitted a pair of previously saltwater sunk engines which had been drained & filled to the top of the rocker cover with oil & had injectors taken out to fill cylinders too basically everything was filled with oil within hours of being recovered

I drained everything & got them running & all seemed fine changed the oil a couple of times & engines ran fine----------------- for 10 hours before one dropped a valve I stripped it & found the cause of the dropped valve to be rust pitting on the springs -not the end of the world as it was a mercruiser 4.2 300 which uses separate heads & wet liners (valve burst a liner & smashed a head & piston)

upon stripping the sump off I found what looked like brown sand in the bottom of the sump only it wasn't sand it was rust particles from the internal surfaces of the block which looked like it had the pox it turned out that salt crystals had stuck to the block & all other internal surfaces & absorbed moisture any time the engine stood for a while I ended up stripping both engines to the last nut & bolt & jet washing every surface to get rid of the caked on salt I also had to rebuild both turbos as they didn't like being fed with gritty oil & replaced all the valve springs as a precaution too

once rebuilt the engines ran fine for 5 years but if I did another pair Id definitely strip the sumps & rocker covers off & jet wash everything to remove the salt before I refilled with oil & started them up I found to my cost oil does not wash off salt & I doubt wd40 or similar would either

hope this helps
 
Ken you say filled with oil within hours of being recovered, but i wonder how long they were under water before recovery, or how long did they stand before being started?
 
lynall said:
Ken you say filled with oil within hours of being recovered, but i wonder how long they were under water before recovery, or how long did they stand before being started?
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engines were submerged less than 24 hours & drained of water etc the day they were recovered & filled with oil to remove oxygen as corrosion cannot occur without oxygen



It was several days before they were started however the damage was done after they were run up as you could see the "tide line" where the normal sump oil level was, above was covered in corrosion spots below was clean

I had the rocker covers off before starting the engines for the first time & valve springs etc were clean with no corrosion

the damage was done by the salt residue stuck to the internal surfaces absorbing moisture & it was several months after the engines were back in service before the valve dropped & alerted me to the problem

the point of my post was to warn that salt does not wash off with oil etc & can carry on doing damage long after you think everything is fine & sorted
 
Following on from a PM to Daka that he has requested I post ...

If God forbid this were me this is what I would do ...

I assume the engines were fully immersed. Book a week off work, then ...

1 Do not attempt to turn over.
2 Drain the engines of their liquid content.
3 Refill to the brim and drain about 5 times with freshwater. This is to dilute the salt.
4 Thoroughly rinse off major externals like starter and alternator, turbo.
5 Remove external assemblies, rinse each and douse with loads of oil or WD40 prior to further dismantling and drying out of each item.
6 Remove head and inspect upper cylinder and head for corrosion. Rinse in fresh water, then low oven bake to dry out. If you know anyone with a large car oven ask if you can place the larger parts inside.
7 I would then judge the status of the main engine block from the state of the head.
8 if the bottom end looks like it will be ok obtain some emulsifying oil and mix this with water and fill the engine with this to get a coat of oil over the internal surfaces. After draining down at this point I would pump neat oil into the oil pressure port and gently turn the engine over to try to get some clean oil through the bearings. If it doesn't look ok then they are going to have to come apart.
9 try to purge the engine with warm air from a blower heater.
10 Fill the engine to the brim with the cheapest oil you can find, then drain and refill, leaving any watery residue in the bottom of the drainer each time.
11 Re assemble and start. Run for a few minutes then change the filters and oil, and do this several times.

If you want I have about 12 drums of lightly used Shell 15w40 you can have to use for the flushing - collect from Reading, plus a lots if hydraulic oil.


None of this is going to be easy. As already mentioned as soon as the water entered the corrosion begins, and when partially drained by but still wet then the corrosion explodes from the free oxygen in the air.
 
Thanks for posting it superheat

I couldnt really copy/paste your work without permission , in particular the bit that made it stand out was the idea of rinsing the internals with fresh water to purge the salt which appeared to be Kens issue.
And of course the offer of oil, what a star :angel:
 
I've only just seen this thread , its all been pretty much covered.

What I will add is a bit if on the squadron that sunk off Weymouth a few years ago.

About two years ago the engines were removed as they were aided a long time after it was lifted from the bottom.

The engines were stripped to find excessive corrosion actually in the threads of the block where the head bolts screw in, it just shows how far sea water can get, it also corroded the main shaft inside the injection pumps.

Diesel is probably better to fill an engine with after salt water ingress as its more searching than oil, not sure I'd want my boat back after its been dunked.
 
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