Engine Start Battery Size

xeitosaphil

xeitosaphil

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I would like to add another 110v leisure battery to my existing domestic set of batteries.
At present I have 2 x 110 leisure batteries in Parallel for domestic, and 1 x 110v leisure which came with the boat purchase for engine starting. This is at least 5 years old and starting to show a few signs, but still ok at present but could be changed for a new one.
My though is to use the engine start battery, as the additional 110v domestic battery, because of its close location to the domestic bank. That leaves me to provide an engine start battery, only problem is space available to do it in new location at the front end of the engine?
I have thought of a sealed AGM as size, mounting and orientation is more flexible, but then realised that I can’t use it because it’s not compatible with my Lead Acid batteries because of its different charging characteristics, as both banks will be charged via the VSR when connected to either alternator or solar panel.
My Engine is only a Yanmar 20 GM20 with a 1KW starter motor so not a big engine to start and only requires a 70Ah engine start battery.

Does anybody know if anybody makes a 70Ah L.A starting battery of less than 190mm high? Or do they tend to be a standard size for a set Ah?

The smallest in height I have managed to find was this one -
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/096-12V-7...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3a95ce6a2c which looks like it may be suitable if it was just bit smaller in height.

Is there any other battery type that would have the same charging characteristics as the Lead Acid I could use, or even be compatible when charged together via the VSR?

Thanks in advance for any replies,

Philip
 
Hi

If your 110 Ahr 12 Volt starter battery is starting to fail, do not connect it to the House battery as it will pull them down and ruin them as well.

Regards
 
seadog30 said:
Hi

If your 110 Ahr 12 Volt starter battery is starting to fail, do not connect it to the House battery as it will pull them down and ruin them as well.

Regards
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input, battery is getting a little higher in discharge rate but nothing to worry about at present but it is something that I am monitoring and will replace if the gets too high. It is also always near full charge due to 100w solar panel and VSR, and doesn't present a problem at present but I hear what you are saying about including it into the Parallel connection.
Thanks Philip
 
When I bought my present boat it had 3 batteries (all suspected dead): 1 Random leisure, 1 Optima Red top installed as a leisure (old and looking past it) and a new ish starter,

When I had problems starting the engine I called an electrician he asked the history I explained I did not know. He replaced the main wires to the engine tried the new ish starter battery it did not start. Then he used the old Optima on the engine it started, I asked him about replacing it as it is old he recommended against and 3 years later I know he was

Have never had an issue, left for 8 weeks no charging frosty morning Yanmar GM2 20 no issues. If every it comes weak I will spend the money and buy the same again... DO not know if it will fit but worth the money IMHO.
 
onesea said:
When I bought my present boat it had 3 batteries (all suspected dead): 1 Random leisure, 1 Optima Red top installed as a leisure (old and looking past it) and a new ish starter,

When I had problems starting the engine I called an electrician he asked the history I explained I did not know. He replaced the main wires to the engine tried the new ish starter battery it did not start. Then he used the old Optima on the engine it started, I asked him about replacing it as it is old he recommended against and 3 years later I know he was

Have never had an issue, left for 8 weeks no charging frosty morning Yanmar GM2 20 no issues. If every it comes weak I will spend the money and buy the same again... DO not know if it will fit but worth the money IMHO.
Click to expand...

Hi onesea,

I know red top batteries are considered to be good batteries but two things against them for me, one it is an AGM battery which as I said before, I don't think I can mix with my other Lead acid batteries sharing the same charging system, and two it is physically to high, but thanks for your reply
 
No reason why you can't use a Red Flash type starter battery if you use it only for starting. You need far more than 220 CCA - typical 30 AH capacity starter battery will have a rating of well over 600. The VSR will direct charge to it for only a short time after starting and then switch to your house batteries.
 
xeitosaphil said:
My Engine is only a Yanmar 20 GM20 with a 1KW starter motor so not a big engine to start and only requires a 70Ah engine start battery.

Does anybody know if anybody makes a 70Ah L.A starting battery of less than 190mm high? Or do they tend to be a standard size for a set Ah?



Thanks in advance for any replies,

Philip
Click to expand...

Good reputable battery suppliers eg Tayna, or Battery Megastore Give full dimensional details on their websites. One of those , if not both, allows you to search by inputting dimension requirements as well as other parameters.


My Varta is a little less than 190mm high. I bought it from Tayna. Dimensions were the prime consideration in its selction
 
What you describe is exactly what I did a few years ago. The boat came with a moulded box for three identically sized batteries, 110 Ah leisure types, one used for starting the other two for domestic services. I added the previous starter battery to the domestic bank and put a Red Flash 900 in the tunnel next to the gearbox. This is the smallest Red flash they do and proved to be too small. I have now upgraded that to a Red Flash 1100 that appears to be perfectly good. I know that a regular poster here on battery matters has had a RF1100 as a starter battery for ten years, with a four cylinder Yanmar. Mine is a 3GM30F.
 
Interesting thread, and I don't want to hijack it, but how do you decide which Red Flash suits your engine? Volvo 2040 (3 cyl 40HP approx)
 
oldvarnish said:
Interesting thread, and I don't want to hijack it, but how do you decide which Red Flash suits your engine? Volvo 2040 (3 cyl 40HP approx)
Click to expand...

The usual answer is to ensure that the CCA value is higher than the starter motor requires. All the Yanmar ones up to 4-cylinder state 200 A. I have not found values for Volvo but assume something similar. However, the battery may need to supply this current for some time and it may not be fully up to charge, so some leeway is needed. The 13 Ah of the RF900 was OK under ideal conditions but not otherwise. The 38Ah of the RF1100 seems to be plenty.
 
I have a Red Flash 1100 which has started my Volvo 28HP for 8 years with no trouble.
Odessey batteries do an Extreme Racing 40 battery which has exactly the same dimensions as the Red Flash 1100 which is 45a/h compared to the Red Flash 37a/h.It has CCA of 500.
You can get it for £159.99 from www.mdsbattery.co.uk or a few pence more from www.puredrivebatteries.co.uk
I bought my 1100 from Merlin and they said the Red Flash 1000 was OK for my engine but I bought the bigger one for a few pounds more.
I shall buy the Odessey one in a couple of years.
 
Agree with Red Flash 1100. Extensively used in applications like emergency generators, pumps, builders plant etc which use similar little diesels to the ones used as base engine for marine applications.
 
So with my engine being a 2gm20 and just 16hp do you think I could use a Red Flash 750 or would it be better to get a RF 1000 or even a RF 1100 ?

Seems strange the RF1000 is a smaller CCA @ 650A --------- than the RD750 @ CCA 700A --------- Do you think they are rated for the same time period of CCA or is the RD 750 going to be a shorter length of time?
 
xeitosaphil said:
So with my engine being a 2gm20 and just 16hp do you think I could use a Red Flash 750 or would it be better to get a RF 1000 or even a RF 1100 ?

Seems strange the RF1000 is a smaller CCA @ 650A --------- than the RD750 @ CCA 700A --------- Do you think they are rated for the same time period of CCA or is the RD 750 going to be a shorter length of time?
Click to expand...

Either will do the job. I have a 1100 previously on a 1GM, now on a Nanni 14. CCA is more than enough the only practical difference is the capacity. You use so little of the capacity with a normal start, but the extra capacity may be worth having for winter starts and if you do have problems starting.
 
xeitosaphil said:
So with my engine being a 2gm20 and just 16hp do you think I could use a Red Flash 750 or would it be better to get a RF 1000 or even a RF 1100 ?

Seems strange the RF1000 is a smaller CCA @ 650A --------- than the RD750 @ CCA 700A --------- Do you think they are rated for the same time period of CCA or is the RD 750 going to be a shorter length of time?
Click to expand...

The numbering does not seem to mean anything to do with the electrical capacity. My previous Red Flash was a 900, which is the smallest Ah they do. It was too small and I now have an 1100. I know of two users of this battery for starting 3 and 4 cylinder engines, in each case they are many years old and still working well. Their beauty is that they can be used in any orientation and one of those two is lying on its side in the bilge beneath the engine.
 
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