Engine Replacement (circa 28 HP)

[Andy and Lyn]

So calling on experts or those with experience of small sail - boat engine replacement -

my Volvo 2030 (28 HP) fitted in my Westerly Renown is getting towards the end of its life - and those that have viewed her tend to agree. She has over 5000 hrs, very noisy, difficult to start and uses "some" oil. Lots of the fittings are wearing out, cables are fraying and cooling is dubious!

So, looking at a replacement:

under considerations are:

VOLVO D1-30
YANMAR 3YM30
BETA 30
VETUS M3.28

all about the 28/29 HP range, and price varies but is not the final decider. Whilst the Volvo is about £1K more expensive, I can retain much of the current stern gear and they will offer me part-ex.

plan is extensive cruising canals/med over the next 5 years so worth doing properly and availablitiy of spares always a consideration. Reliability is the most important factor..

Any thoughts gratefully recieived.

 

[duncan99210]

KISS would seem to apply - go for the Volvo if it makes fitting the replacement easier. Volvo bits readily available in most places as well.

 

[tri39]

I've just replaced a Yanmar 2GM with a Yanmar 3YM. Only had to move the front engine mounts 3ins and reroute the exhaust and fuel lines! Presumably same applies if you stay with Volvo!
However I am very impressed with the reliability of Yanmars and I certainly would consider a change! Are you going to do the work yourself? I did and it's not that diff for a non specialist if you take it slowly and methodically.
Presumably the main change would be to the engine bearers and mounts. You should not have to change the stern gear if it's shaft drive? I'll shut up, many more experienced mechanics will tell you!!

 

[daveyw]

As discussed in other threads there's this company doing good deals

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/27-80hp-d...at_Engines_EngineParts_SM&hash=item2ea6d8c454

 

[Grehan]

Can only remark that our Southerly's (2000-2008) Yanmar was extremely reliable, as seems to be our current Nanni/Kubota engine. Maybe wrongly, I see both engines robustly powering construction plant and am reassured.

 

[Bobobolinsky]

I agree with Grehan, the Kubota base is in loads of tractors mini diggers and construction plant, so Beta gets my vote and they are very helpful. In addition in a slightly different form (for the pedants on here) they also power a great many of the French built chiller trucks, so spares are really easy to get hold of.

 

[Andy and Lyn]

Marine power solutions do appear a very good price - anyone got one or know of one on someone elses boat?

 

[Csail]

Have you looked at thornycroft?

 

[mattrosersv]

Replaced a Volvo MD11C in our Pentland a few years ago with Yanmar 3YM30. Decision was between Yanmar and Beta and Yanmar won thanks to the petrolhead in me. It was making more HP and torque than the Beta at the time.

Prop throw was reversed so parts list included bearers, shaft and prop. Throttle mechanism was retained.

 

[Gordonmc]

Marine power solutions do appear a very good price - anyone got one or know of one on someone elses boat?

Yes.
I bought the 46 hp version last year to re-power my ketch which previously had a Yanmar 3QM30.
The engine block is a Mitsibushi copy and the gearbox a PRM look-alike.
Once the engine bearers were repositioned installation was without too much grief; I used the original stuffing box, propshaft and prop. I wanted to see if the set up needed re-propping before spending more. The old Yanmar coupling was re-used with the flange re-drilled with new bolt centres.
The panel was very much plug n' play and the engine started on the first turn of the key. One electrical niggle... occasionally the solenoid would fail to activate. Andrew Knight (the distributor) had the solution and there have been no further problems.
Paperwork was sparse, but hey... its a deisel. Having re-engined a friends boat with a Volvo I found most of the paperwork comprised warranty invalidations.
The engine has been in use since launch from July this year without any problems.
The nay-sayers keep coming up with the line that the re-sale value of the boat will suffer with an "unknown" engine. That may be a factor if you don't intend keeing the boat for any length of time. My boat was a project and I don't intend selling for quite a while, if ever.
Bear in mind too that the base engine is powering millions of tractors, generators and diggers in China and Africa.

 

[Tranona]

Nothing will be a straight replacement, and almost certainly you will end up replacing most of the ancilliaries anyway because if the engine has done 5000 hours you would not want to use them on a new engine. So, the only fixed point is the shaft as everything else can be (relatively) easily changed.

So look for a package that fits the space (most will), has the service points accessible in your application, gives you an appropriate choice on things like gearbox ratio, alternator size and key things like exhaust outlet and control brackets are in suitable places.

There is very little to choose among the main players in terms of performance, economy, reliability or life as they are all based on Japanese industrial engines. There are however differences in the marinisation which generally speaking is the bit that gives problems on boats - waterpumps, heat exchangers, exhausts etc. You will also find that spec for spec there is very little difference in price for a complete installation.

Which to choose often depends on things like availability of service and spares plus ease of installation if you are doing it yourself - or a reliable installer if paying for it.

And, of course colour, as they are all different so you need to co-ordinate with the colour scheme of your boat.

FWIIW I chose a Nanni to replace a Yanmar using the criteria above and luckily it is blue to go with the boat, but would have stayed with Yanmar except that their equivalent would not have fitted the space.

 

[Andy and Lyn]

looks like its a toss up between Yanmar and Volvo!##

considering much of the time will be in the Med - both West and East - any thoughts regarding spares availability!

We re both colour blind when it comes to engines so no matter!

 

[Tranona]

Spares and service are widely available for either. They are the most commonly used engines in the volume produced boats. Bavaria is 100% Volvo and the French builders about 50/50.

Spares requirements on new engines is minimal and all the service parts for any of the engines are widely available as they are either proprietory parts (such as water pumps, gearboxes and starters/alternators) or common with industrial engines such as Kubota, Mitsubishi or Perkins.

 

[scoty]

Nanni/Kubuta

My westerly longbow had a Volvo , it now has a NANNI 29hp,,,,,ten years on,,,now in the Med: and as only needed, oil and filter changes, quiet and powerfull, brilliant,

Plus. point, 1000sands are fitted in fishing boats.

 

[Andy and Lyn]

thanks Scoty - decision time next week!!

 

[G12]

My boat's original engine was replaced with a small Beta before I owned her. My only thoughts on the beta are that the marinisation doesn't seem to be engineered too well. Everything you'd need seems to be an optional extra...... instruments, alternator belts that last a decent time, a heat exchanger that doesn't blow it's contents out (common issue), on my engine if I back the alternator all the way off to change the belt then the D+ terminal shorts out on the heat exchanger, pathetic size anode in the heat exchanger etc etc It just has a feel of not properly worked out... built to a price. Maybe I've been spoiled with the old Mercedes OM636 I used to get to look after.

Beta's service for spares is fairly good, as long as the right chap is in the office but quite expensive......

 

[davey]

I'm more interested in boat engines than boats and over the years I've bought one or two fixer-uppers. As to Yanmar products I really don't know why people rave about them as I'm not impressed with what is IMHO their poor engineering. Take the way that the crankshaft pulley fits onto the 1GM10, it is bolted onto a tapered shaft. Whilst this would be OK if the pulley was made from steel it is actually some type of cast iron. Now as any student of physics or engineering knows, cast iron is strong in compression but weak in extension. To cut a long story short the pulleys can split through the key-way. Villiers evidently knew about his problem as they used to make cast iron pulleys that had a steel insert. If its any consolation Ruggerini made the same faux-pas as Yanmar on their 15 HP twin but in that case the taper is on the flywheel. All is not lost however as there is enough space and metal to machine the flywheel boss and shrink-on a high-tensile steel tube. Of course that is not going to be a five minute job and its a job that is only economic when done as a hobby. Getting back to the 1GM10, one that I bought had actually suffered from a leaking head gasket so the boat was literally abandoned on its moorings. After six years the boatyard seized the boat in lieu of unpaid fees and sold it. The new owner did not want the 1GM10 as it was too small for a thirty foot boat so I bought it. One fault was that rainwater had flooded the engine up to crankshaft level so the starter needed a major overhaul. The pesky external oil pipes which are absurdly expensive had rusted away and need re-making with Cunifer Perrenic Auto tubing but the worst fault was the aft tappet. The aft-tappet-tunnel gets seawater in it if the head gasket leaks and this can rust the tappet solidly in place. The result is that the engine will only rotate about one and one half turns. Fixing this will involve a major stripdown and it is quite likely that the tappet may have to be drilled-out with a carbide drill bit. The camshaft will have to be removed before any work with big hammers or hydraulic jacks or drills is attempted so that project is well and truly on the backburner. The cylinder heads do not appear to be particularly durable either and the exhaust port can rust right through into the crank-case void. Duh!

An old colleague now nicknamed "Captain Bligh" (he is a very good blue-water sailor) mentioned that an old friend of his has a fishing boat that is propelled by an ancient Bolinders engine that has run OK for seventy years (it will be eighty years by now!) As the old cliche goes "They just don't make them like that anymore!" Of course the main curse of a marine engine is seawater and wet exhausts. Ships have dry exhausts but on a small boat hot exhaust pipes can be inconvenient. If one can employ a dry exhaust and heat-exchanger cooling ones engine durability should be as good as a car. Unfortunately most small marine diesels just don't measure up. One very good engine is the Mercedes OM636 with heat exchanger but these are rather heavy. Such engines often outlive the wooden boats that they were installed in but one can also say the same about Vetus.

If a boat has a wet exhaust the water can evaporate and the water vapour can then condense in the engine and create rust.

Good luck!

 

[tcm]

So calling on experts or those with experience of small sail - boat engine replacement -

my Volvo 2030 (28 HP) fitted in my Westerly Renown is getting towards the end of its life - and those that have viewed her tend to agree. She has over 5000 hrs, very noisy, difficult to start and uses "some" oil. Lots of the fittings are wearing out, cables are fraying and cooling is dubious!

So, looking at a replacement:

under considerations are:

VOLVO D1-30
YANMAR 3YM30
BETA 30
VETUS M3.28

all about the 28/29 HP range, and price varies but is not the final decider. Whilst the Volvo is about £1K more expensive, I can retain much of the current stern gear and they will offer me part-ex.

plan is extensive cruising canals/med over the next 5 years so worth doing properly and availablitiy of spares always a consideration. Reliability is the most important factor..

Any thoughts gratefully recieived.

If you base the boat in the same place, I would find your local friendly engine fixing bods and ask them! Then they will have the delightful job of following their own advice. And they won't ever be able to say "i told you we should have fitted brand x".

If going any distance like transatlantic then i think i would fit Yanmar - so perhaps I would go find the Yanmar people and ask them to quote. Worldwide i always found Yanmar parts easy to find - even in the pacific. Whereas people laughed at others trying to get volvo parts. 5000 hours on a yanmar is not end of life.

 

[macd]

I suspect the OPs have made their engine choice some time in the four years since they asked the question

 

[charles_reed]

<<There is very little to choose among the main players in terms of performance, economy, reliability or life as they are all based on Japanese industrial engines...

Tranona is correct. to a point, in all being a modified industrial engine - except one engine, Yanmar are originally designed as marine engines and have become popular in industrial applications.
I'd agree with him about most engines being comparable, the big variable is how well they're marinised.
My first Yanmar (reconditioned when fitted to my pre-production prototype boat) did just under 10,000 hrs and was truly worn when I changed it for another Yanmar - because it fitted (almost) and could use the same (recently replaced) stern gear. I'd still recommend Yanmar over the others but the final decision must come down to value for money - which, in UK, appears to militate against Yanmar.